Viking firestarting, the quartzite & soft iron method

[Galemys]

Here's a post by someone over at Paleoplanet that has made it work:

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/to...f-fire-steel-and-matching-striking-stone.html

Cheers,

Tom

 

[jimfbte]

"THE QUARTZITE-AND-IRON" method of fire starting:
"A method allied to, but distinct from, the Flint-and-Steel Method was that which involved the use of a block of quartzite and a pointed piece of soft iron. These yielded sparks when struck together. The method came into use in comparatively recent times and was never wide-spread, having never been practised outside the Scandinavian countries; where, for a few centuries, it was used very generally."

Original thread:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21329&highlight=bryant

The method is also mentioned by Walter Hough, a museum curator who has written articles on firestarting devices (thank's for sending and reviving this interest Ed!). It consists of a piece of quartz/quartzite, usually a flattish oval that was worn on the waistband, and a pointed piece of 'soft' iron. The iron pick was used to create sparks with the quartz stone. The iron dulled very easily and the same stone was used to sharpen the point. The stones have a lengthwise groove in it formed by the usage. The perimeter of the stone also has a groove so it could be tight with a piece of leather and fastened to the waistband.

Thank's to Google I found the following site (is this family of yours Wayland?):
http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/fire.shtml
with a link to the following article (In Swedish, but the pictures show alot):
Grimbe, Jannika. Ovala eldslagningsstenar - vad har de använts till? (PDF).
Here's the direct link:
http://www.forntidateknik.z.se/IFT/litte/eldslag2.pdf

Although my Swedish isn't up to standard, I can still make out that Mrs. Grimbe discusses the history of the method, the archeological finds, some other firestarting methods and that she has succesfully experimented with two kinds of stone and iron picks of different carbon content. There's lot's of pictures included as well.
Maybe one of the Swedish speaking members can give a short transcript?

Has anyone here (Mike?) tried this method?

Cheers,

Tom

Here's the translated Jannika Grimbe (compliments of Google).

http://translate.google.com/transla...itte/eldslag2.pdf&sl=sv&tl=en&history_state0=

Jim FBtE

 

[jimford]

The iron itself does not burn. If you strike a bunch of sparks over a piece of white paper, and then look at what is left on the paper under a strong magnifying lense, you will see small spheres of iron.

Hmm, I think what you're seeing is spheres of Iron(II) Oxide = FeO.

Iron _does_ combine with oxygen and hence burn. What do you think the millscale is when forging iron or steel?

Jim

 

[Husky]

Pleasant surprise to see Jannika´s name mentioned here.
I used to know her when we both studied in Umeå and she wrote the paper and I believe that she now lives less than two hours away.
Maybe I´ll just go see her and ask for a demonstration shall I?

 

[Matt.S]

Mike Ameling, I'm curious about your assertion that it's the carbon that burns rather than the iron. Respectfully I'm dubious but am keeping an open mind. On the one hand 'burning'/sparkler temperature is generally inversely proportional to carbon content (ignoring other major alloying elements) but surely this could be caused by or otherwise associated with the melting point, which exhibits a similar trend? If indeed it is the carbon which burns when using a steel fire-striker, that's only roughly 1% of the weight of the 'chip' which burns. I have no direct data, but that carbon must release an awful lot of energy when it oxidises in order to melt a piece of iron 99 times its mass to a temperature 1538C (2800F) -- its melting point. Again going back to that all-too-common blacksmith's embarrassment the steel sparkler, if one were to take a quarter-inch rod of say 1010 mild steel (where we know the carbon content) and put it in the oxidising zone of the fire it'd start burning and sparkling in no time. Give it a bit longer and it'll sparkle away to nothing; the iron will have oxidised. If the carbon content of that piece of steel is around 0.1%, why has 100% of the rod disappeared as sparks? Although heating a rod in the forge and striking a piece of steel with a piece of stone aren't quite the same I believe they are the same mechanism.

Furthermore how does oxygen get access to the carbon (generally in various chemical bonds with ferrite)? And since it's at such an elevated temperature (1538C/2800F, as already mentioned) -- much higher than that at which hammerscale is produced -- and in an oxygen-rich atmosphere surely the iron will not remain in its elemental state?

Finally if indeed it is the carbon rather than the carbon and the iron burning in the sparks of a fire-steel why are sparks produced from other materials such as iron pyrites?

 

[BOD]

Tom,

I'm a late comer to this thread and am a bit confused and need some help to clarify things)

Are there any photos or good drawings of an actual Viking steel striker ( or accurate replica) around?

I understand that the steel is struck/scrapped along the groove like a match to make the spark?? More like fire by friction than percussion, so to speak???

Little bells are faintly ringing in my head.

You see this part of the world lacks flint but the rivers abound in quartzite (batu puteh) and when I have asked about fire making methods there is often reference to batu puteh and besi (iron/steel)

Being focused on the fire bamboo and fire piston, I did not listen as closely as I should have and dismissed it as simple percussion and moved on.

There may or may not be something here. But since the Scandinavians and the aborigines share the fire thong why not this method too?

 

[jimford]

Mike Ameling, I'm curious about your assertion that it's the carbon that burns rather than the iron.
<snip>

You're right - and anyway the carbon in iron isn't in a free state, it's combined with the iron to form iron carbide.

Jim

 

[Galemys]

There's a link to a short videoclip added in the paleoplanet thread, so you can see the sparks when the quartzite is scraped with an awl.

Ash (BOD),

I'm guessing the quartzite in your area is/was used with the traditional flint and steel method instead of flint. Just as flint, quartz or quartzite (if the edge is sharp enough) has the right hardness to scrape little bits of a hardened piece of steel to produce sparks. It will work in combination with the temiang bamboo as well.

In my first post there's a link to a swedish article on this method, it has some colour pictures of the stones as well.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[BOD]

Deleted as it was a duplicate post made when the browser did not show the previous one

 

[Le Loup]

Although the method is known as "flint & Steel" the rock used very often was not flint. Much depended on what rock was available at the time you needed a new piece. Flint per se was not always available, here in Australia for instance the only flint found is that which was brought over as ballast in ships and then dumped on our shores.
Quartz can be used though I find the quartz around here is very fractured. Chert and agate work well and there are many hard to semi-hard rocks I have not identified that also work.
Keith.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Although the method is known as "flint & Steel" the rock used very often was not flint. Much depended on what rock was available at the time you needed a new piece. Flint per se was not always available, here in Australia for instance the only flint found is that which was brought over as ballast in ships and then dumped on our shores.
Quartz can be used though I find the quartz around here is very fractured. Chert and agate work well and there are many hard to semi-hard rocks I have not identified that also work.
Keith.

Please go back and re-read the whole message thread. This is not about "flint/steel" fire starting. It is about a specific variation of starting a fire - with SOFT IRON and QUARTZITE. It is a method of fire starting that came into fashion/use a couple hundred years ago in the Scandinavian countries. The big question is what actually is burning in those sparks, since the soft iron does not have the carbon in it like steel does.

It is just another interesting method of fire starting. But distinctly different from the flint/steel method.

Mikey