true enough - I should probably have said don't accept it without legal council
so it wasn't legal even before the change then.
so it wasn't legal even before the change then.
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Not More Knife Law
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Sorry to be pedantic but that's not quite right.
If I owned woodland (come on the lottery!), fenced it off and put up "keep out" signs it is a private place as I'm not permitting access to the public. As such I can carry any type of bladed article I want. Just because a member of the public could trespass by climbing over the fence and ignoring the sign it does mean it is a public place.
The key word in your quote from the legislation is "permitted". If the public are not permitted access then it is not a public place. It does not have to be a "...secure private property..." where "...and anybody can enter or leave at will..." to be a public place.
The exception is a person's car. While I don't allow the public access to my car it is considered to be a public place.
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Not quite, a car is not a place. It is private property (as opposed to on it), technically, it's a private possession which can be in a public place such as on the highway, or in a private place such as your garage. When you are in yourt car on the highway, you are in a public place, when you are in your car in your garage, you are in a private place. Think of your car as a suitcase on wheels. Anything in your car in a public place, is in public - just like it would be in your suitcase.
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Totally agree when it comes to the caution. Even with legal advice to accept the caution I would refuse if I felt the advice was not correct. Unfortunately you get good and bad soliciters, just as you get good and bad Police officers. Some have been known to recommend accepting the caution as "it's not really a conviction" and "it won't affect you".
But you can't "not accept" an arrest. Well, you can try but you'll end up with a couple of huuughe hairy a*sed coppers sitting on your chest! Once arrested you're details are taken and you then have a Police record. It's not a record of criminal convictions, it'll be held for intelligence purposes or for statitics. For whatever reason your name is in the system and it'll show on a CRB check.
Yes, it's becomming comon practice to ignore section 139 and the arguments about good reason and just nick you for possession of an offensive weapon for any knife, regardless of size or lock etc ...and then "let you off" with a caution. 
.
.And that's when you need to know the 3 criteria that define an offensive weapon!
Prevention of Crime Act, 1955 (IIRC)
To be an offensive weapon the item must;
- be designed to be a weapon (e.g. commando dagger, martial arts tonfa)
- be adapted to be a weapon (e.g. length of wood with nails through one end)
- be intended to be a weapon (e.g. any knife used in a threatening manner or a rolled up newspaper rammed down someones throat)
Finally, the offence must take place in a public place.
In the previous example of a knife used at a picnic left in the boot of the car the Police calling it a weapon is totally wrong. Yes, it is reasonable for them to consider a bladed or pointed article in a public place but offensive weapon is not correct.
What I find really funny is when on Police "reality" shows on TV the recover an "offensive weapon" when searching a house or flat (some of them EDC knives!). It's private property! I could be sat there with a sword in one hand, 2 by 4 in the other shouting that I'll cut them all and it still isn't an offencive weapon.
Prevention of Crime Act, 1955 (IIRC)
To be an offensive weapon the item must;
- be designed to be a weapon (e.g. commando dagger, martial arts tonfa)
- be adapted to be a weapon (e.g. length of wood with nails through one end)
- be intended to be a weapon (e.g. any knife used in a threatening manner or a rolled up newspaper rammed down someones throat)
Finally, the offence must take place in a public place.
In the previous example of a knife used at a picnic left in the boot of the car the Police calling it a weapon is totally wrong. Yes, it is reasonable for them to consider a bladed or pointed article in a public place but offensive weapon is not correct.
What I find really funny is when on Police "reality" shows on TV the recover an "offensive weapon" when searching a house or flat (some of them EDC knives!). It's private property! I could be sat there with a sword in one hand, 2 by 4 in the other shouting that I'll cut them all and it still isn't an offencive weapon.
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Your car is not private property either,if your vehicle has been registered to drive on public roads technically it belongs to the ministry of transport,and you are merely it's legal custodian.Crazy as it may seem this is also the case when you register a birth,your child belongs to the state not you.These are the laws of control that allow our government to seize property and enforce army drafts and so on without breaking human rights laws. Sorry to hijack thread,this information is freely available,go check it's shocking .I'll get off my soap box now.
Sorry but that is just 'freemen' nonsense, It is the bill of sale, receipt, higher purchase papers etc. which you hold for the vehicle which confirm legal ownership.
"Section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 prohibits the possession in any public place of an offensive weapon without lawful authority or excuse. (Archbold 24-106a.) "
A home is not a public place as the public are not routinely allowed access without permission. So it is impossible to posess an offensive weapon in a private home.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a07
No, it's it's still an offensive weapon, it's just not illegal in your own home. It is perfectly legal to possess offensive weapons on your own property.
According to my police mate, pretty much anything can be an offensive weapon, it all depends on the intent.
I had someone try and gouge my eye out with a car key once, had he succeeded, that car key would have been classed as an offensive weapon.
I had someone try and gouge my eye out with a car key once, had he succeeded, that car key would have been classed as an offensive weapon.
That's correct, in fact he doesn't need to succeed, just trying to do it makes it assault with an offensive weapon. But in the case of your own home, possession of items actually designed as weapons, such as swords, or items adapted to be weapons, such as a baseball bat with nails knocked through it, or items intended for use as weapons, such as a crossbow hanging on your wall with a sign on it saying "for shooting burglars" ...are in fact all legal to possess. Obviously if you actually used them the courts would want to discuss the matter with you, but simple possession on private property is quite legal.
In fact there are occasions when possession of an offensive weapon is legal in public....
You just need to have lawful authority or lawful excuse - which is why things like batons, pepper spray, hand guns and assault rifles can be carried in public by police officers without them breaking the law. It's also why it's not necessarily illegal to shoot somebody in self defence. It depends on the circumstances. This is where it gets complicated, because "self defence" is actually a lawful excuse.
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Please check the vehicle registration laws before you start throwing derogatory comments around. you are right in as much as you can purchase a vehicle and own it but you cannot legally drive it on a public road until it has been registered with the M O T.At which point it is no longer your sole property.If your statement were wholly correct,then anyone who has had a vehicle impounded or sent to a crusher could have the ministry of transport charged with theft for the former and willfull destruction for the latter.
Outpost is perfectly correct. There was an excellent letter and online debate about it in a car magazine I used to subscribe to a few years ago. It was one of the instances that prompted my interest in the more obscure laws and governance of the UK. You think you're a free man? You're not. You're far from it.
When you start digging in, it's frightening. In fact, with the way the average, non born to gentry commoner is treated in this country, allied to a week when we've seen 50 million in bonus given to gross incompetants, I'm genuinely amazed there isn't civil unrest in this country.
When you start digging in, it's frightening. In fact, with the way the average, non born to gentry commoner is treated in this country, allied to a week when we've seen 50 million in bonus given to gross incompetants, I'm genuinely amazed there isn't civil unrest in this country.
Police should only seize goods if they have reasonable grounds for believing that:
They have been obtained illegally; or
They are evidence in relation to an offence.
Or the Vehicle is used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
S59 Police Reform Act 2002
(1)Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which
(a)contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b)is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2)A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3)Those powers are
(a)power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b)power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c)power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d)power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
Seizure: S60 Police Reform Act 2002 and The Police Retention and Disposal of Motor Vehicles) Regulations 2002 and The Police (Retention and Disposal of Motor Vehicles)(Amendment) Regulations 2005 and The Police (Retention and Disposal of Motor Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2008).
So because anyone who has had a vehicle impounded (seized) and or crushed has had their vehicle impounded or crushed because they have broken the law in some way and their vehicle is impounded or crushed because they have broken the law. It is as simple as that.
When I registered the Birth of my daughter did I hand over her rights to the local council
@ nigeltm
The quote given is the definition given by the House of Lords. If you own a piece of woodland, and fence it off as you describe, it is then regarded as a "secure private place". If, however, you do not fence it off, so that any person can,if they wish, enter and in fact do enter,then irrespective of the fact of trespass, it is regarded as a public place for the purposes of several Acts relating to offensive weapons and firearms.
There is considerable confusion regarding the legallity of possession of weapons and firearms, but these provisions directly affect my daily work, as I have to carry weapons in public places in the course of my work, which, as a pest controller, involves killing things.
Alan
The quote given is the definition given by the House of Lords. If you own a piece of woodland, and fence it off as you describe, it is then regarded as a "secure private place". If, however, you do not fence it off, so that any person can,if they wish, enter and in fact do enter,then irrespective of the fact of trespass, it is regarded as a public place for the purposes of several Acts relating to offensive weapons and firearms.
There is considerable confusion regarding the legallity of possession of weapons and firearms, but these provisions directly affect my daily work, as I have to carry weapons in public places in the course of my work, which, as a pest controller, involves killing things.
Alan
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