Not More Knife Law

[entropydog]

Sorry Folks...
I have searched through the threads on this site but am still struggling...I always take a fixed blade knife out and about when in the countryside. I’m 40 and inoffensive looking (I hope). However my job depends on enhanced CRBs and due to media attention I’m getting increasingly paranoid about the law... I sit around light fires ( I’m fairly up on where to light and what’s regulation and safe) and do the usual stuff, this is not usually on private land, if I was stopped by the police what excuse regarding the knife can I give. How would I justify its use...I often cycle or Walk to these places and end up walking through small towns villages most often in Derbyshire...I note a few threads mention shining cliff woods a favourite of mine...Is my paranoia of ruining a clean CRB justified any suggestions on what or what not to say... some helpful advice PLEASE

 

[Retired Member southey]

No suggestions on what to say, Bushcraft is not good reason to carry anything over the legal, sub 3" cutting edge, non locking, folding bladed knife.

 

[jonajuna]

most knives are not illegal, but you need a reason to be in possession in a public place with anything but a small non locking folder. In camp as you describe, you can argue you a good reason. On the walk or cycle in, keep it sheathed and deep in your kit bag.

Possession isn't illegal if you have just cause. The police can take your word for that, or you have to argue your case in court. But bear in mind. No police officer can just stop and search you for no reason. So don't show it unless using it for a justifiable purpose and the chances of running into trouble are so low as to not be a worry

Hope this helps reassure?

Jon
Sent via tapatalk from my shiny sgs2

 

[jonajuna]

@ southy.... Bushcraft may not be, camp craft may well be. Does a angler need more than a folder? Some would say yes, others no.

The legality comes down to justifiable reason, so basically if you have a convincing argument... Whittling sticks.... No. battoning firewood...yes

Sent via tapatalk from my shiny sgs2

 

[jonajuna]

On the issue of CRB, I too need enhanced crb as well as police and isa clearances. I also do risk assessments on those with less than clear crb.... Conviction isn't the barrier...the type and context of the conviction is.

Sent via tapatalk from my shiny sgs2

 

[ged]

If you're that worried, get yourself a sub three inch non-locking folder and leave the rest at home. Last weekend at Shining Cliff the main tools that I used on my Charge were the pliers and the can opener.

 

[Samon]

It's not a good idea to ask for an excuse to use, instead ask yourself why you carry such a knife.

If it's for camping chores like whittling, practicing bush/woodcraft, food prep and any other inoffensive knife task you'll be fine.

I do wonder what someone might say if ever confronted by mr.copper, would 'because I'm in the woods' be a good reason?

It's unlikely any policeman will be in the woods but I also walk to myy destinations with my tools, because of this I do my best to be sensible and discreet with intentions of only using the tools once at my spot.

Unfortunately our laws/rights aren't set in stone and the legality of our actions are down the opinions of 'authority'. It's a nice way for our rights to be bent and changed as and when desired.

Just be sensible and safe, no right minded person would argue with good honest reason.

 

[Corso]

No suggestions on what to say, Bushcraft is not good reason to carry anything over the legal, sub 3" cutting edge, non locking, folding bladed knife.

then neither is anything else surely?

 

[Retired Member southey]

then neither is anything else surely?

If not for your job then no.

 

[nigeltm]

... the main tools that I used on my Charge were the pliers and the can opener.

I don't have the reference to hand but multitool can also be considered a locking blade due to the way the handle must be opened for the blade to be stowed. A few coppers I know have said they would consider a caution or summons for a bladed article in respect to a multitool. To the extent that they would not carry one themselves in or out of work as they could not justify it.

 

[entropydog]

The contradictions and ambiguity in the answers pretty much sums it up I think....What can I say, Boys and toys I love my knife...sitting near the fire whittling away cooking up some grub...it would not be the same with a small folder...It’s a shame that a few yobs ruin it for the honest folk...

 

[TurboGirl]

46yr old innocuous female I may be, but I wouldn't take anything bigger than 3" and the feds of my aquaintence would always take a fixed blade as a definate reason to put on the serious face and ask plenty of probing questions.

Can I suggest that the way you talk to said feds is likely to be the most important factor? Don't seem worried for sure or they'll think you're hiding something... a smile, freindly hello and a open chat about what your doing with plenty of eyecontact and good body language will see you miles.

Dunno how I'd explain a big jobbie when cycling or walking though villages tho.... but then as a noob I wouldn't take it anyhow as it'd probably endanger/ put me in a bad position...

 

[3bears]

I got stopped a while back with my Izula, the copper even managed to cut himself, but as I pointed out, I'll a local craftsman who sells my wares in a craft shop in Holyhead, all fine- to be honest I think attitude comes into play a lot here, if you're open, and are able to give account of what you're carrying in my case I was free to go on my way, despite the poor fellow having opened up his thumb.

 

[Retired Member southey]

There isn't any contradiction or ambiguity in my posts, if you want facts then read section 139, then go to you local police station and ask them what thy will accept as good reason, as they will be the ones who's interpretation of the law really matters.

 

[Welshwizard]

Even though we (as a body) know it is easier ,safer and stronger to use a good fixed blade knife as a all round tool in the woods it would be difficult to convince your average p.c. of this reasoning if found in possesion of same whilst cycling or walking (or other transport form) via a built up area wether it be street,village , or town - don,t give them a reason to start with, keep to the sub 3" folder non locking .

 

[3bears]

though it's got to be asked too, why would you get stopped in the 1st place, it's not like most folk walk around with a sign above their heads declaring they are carrying a locking, or slippy folder with a blade >3".... again attitude, don't be flashing it around and acting the goat, no problem. I look as dodgy as sin itself when I'm in the woods (big hairy fellow in greens/browns/camo) but because I'm not crashing around ect, nobody bats an eyelid, for all I know, I'm often mistaken for a farmer!

 

[lannyman8]

i started to carry a 3 " locking folder for safety reasons (the lock that is) instead of my mora or hand made bushcrafter, the first time i tried to batton with it i broke the lock, almost sliced my fingers off and lost some good money...

i now always carry a fixed blade in the woods, nothing to big, just a mora size blade, a folding saw is always in my jacket which is always in there no matter where i go...

my reason for this is i use a wood burning stove, i need a fixed blade to batton wood, i also need the saw (which would also be considered a bladed weapon etc)..

i just make sure its covered up around other people and never take it with me through the town unless in a pack, having said that, as above, actions speek louder than words, dressed as a chav with hoodey and trackey bottoms hood up with a daysack looking worried walking through the town centre is probley not the way to go...

just act normal and IF stopped tell the truth, im going to the wood at -------- for a brew on my wood burning stove and to take some pics of wildlife....job done..

 

[nigeltm]

There isn't any contradiction or ambiguity in my posts, if you want facts then read section 139, then go to you local police station and ask them what thy will accept as good reason, as they will be the ones who's interpretation of the law really matters.

The problem is a good reason for one copper is not good enough for another. It is subjective. It is influenced by the media, force policy, political issues and the officers own personal opinion. Some officers think there there is never a reason to carry a knife as "all knives are designed to kill" (direct quote!).

Sect 139 is only part if the equation. Don't forget DPP vs Harris (1995 I think). The case law which excluded locking blades from 139.

 

[Thenihilist]

This is an absolute joke.

4 inch sheath knife in the bag till i'm at a quiet spot in the woods then i'm wearing it round my kneck and it'll be used for woodcraft. I wouldn't care if it's a 18 inch machete, i'm within my right to use it.

Stop being so bloody silly.

 

[Retired Member southey]

you have to accept that just because you choose to burn wood, batton, carve or any other hobby(non job) activities, what ever your views are means nothing, the letter of the law and its interpretation by those charged with upholding it are the only things that count, BUT it only matters if you are being talked to by a policeman as to why you have it