Not More Knife Law

[ateallthepies]

I'll think you will find the defendant and their legal team has the right to reject any member of the Jury or the entire jury if they have reasonable grounds to do so, also the jury is made up from a randomly selected cross section of society, when i did my Jury service a couple of years back, we had people from all sections of the community just as it should be, so the the chances of getting an entire jury made up from lefties is so remote as to be not worth considering, but if it came to it i would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Is this not in the selection process weeding out potentially damaging jurors either for the defence or prosecution? Or are 12 selected at random and not scrutinized by the council on either side?

Has anyone been sentenced to death in the UK recently, I don't recall anyone in my memory, even the most heinous people to me are given pittance with no regard to the family they affected who suffer for life?

Steve.

 

[British Red]

Who decides how you felt, merited the action Red?

Steve.

A jury of my peers.

As the old saying goes

Its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

I personally don't see an issue here. If I genuinely believe my life, or the life of my loved ones is in immediate danger, I will protect it, as will almost anyone else.

I would prefer that the law made it less of a grey area or subject to interpretation of events (castle law), but when all is said and done, that is about what happens afterwards, not at the time.

I very much doubt that anyone ever thought "I won't defend my childrens life for fear of what happens afterwards"

Red

 

[Kepis]

Is this not in the selection process weeding out potentially damaging jurors either for the defence or prosecution? Or are 12 selected at random and not scrutinized by the council on either side?


Steve.

Certainly when i did my Jury service a couple of years back there were 24 of us on duty and we all went into the court room where 12 names where then read out, up until this point neither we nor the defence, the prosecution or the defendant had seen us nor we them, we were told by the court usher that if we recognised anybody in the court we should make it known, and if i remember right once we (the 12) were seated the two sides were asked if they had any objections to any of the jurors and then we were sworn in and the trial went ahead.

The two sides have no knowledge of who is on the jury until such time they are seated, these days even a Judge can get called up for it, as for weeding out damaging jurors, what about the woman juror in the past few weeks who was texting her boyfriend in the gallery, cant get much more damaging than that?, strange really as when i did mine all our phones had to be turned off then placed into brown envelopes which were then sealed we signed over the flap so we could see if the envelope had been opened and then the envelopes where put int he court safe until such time we were released for the day.

The death sentance was abolished in Britain a long time ago, anyway how did this thread get so far off track, i thought we were talking about knife law not the death penalty?.

so getting back on topic................................

 

[ateallthepies]

One more question Kepis if I may, if there was 24 of you at the start,how were the 12 selected?

Steve.

 

[ateallthepies]

I very much doubt that anyone ever thought "I won't defend my childrens life for fear of what happens afterwards"

Red

Yes I agree even though I don't have children.

Why is our law so concerned with what law abider's do rather than finding and closing any possible loophole to get the offenders off? It all seems geared in the favour of the offender, all the time, the people just trying to live have to come up with excuses to outwit the highly paid defence guys who are only interested in getting an aquittal?

Steve.

 

[Kepis]

One more thing Mr Kepis, if there was 24 of you at the start,how were the 12 selected?

Steve.

name out of a hat i presume, i dont know and dont particulary care, but when you do your jury service there are, well there were inthe two weeks i did i it over two different cases 24 people called for service, 12 of whom are selected by whatever means the court servide use to select people.

By the way whats with the MR carp?

 

[ateallthepies]

It looked rude for some reason typing that sentence without the 'Mr' before 'Kepis' but I will drop the Mr in future

Steve.

 

[ateallthepies]

Another question on knife law, if you have a reasonable excuse or even use the 'for work' clause, do you then have to justify the type/size of the blade to fit with the activity?

I'm a sparky so sometimes have a Leatherman Wave on my belt which I feel is reasonable for my job but what if I had say a Kukri or similar machete for stripping cables and other elecy related jobs? Silly I know but does my 'excuse' entitle me to have anything over the 3 inch/fixed blade rule or will I still need fit the blade to the job to be safe?

Steve.

 

[santaman2000]

Another question on knife law, if you have a reasonable excuse or even use the 'for work' clause, do you then have to justify the type/size of the blade to fit with the activity?

I'm a sparky so sometimes have a Leatherman Wave on my belt which I feel is reasonable for my job but what if I had say a Kukri or similar machete for stripping cables and other elecy related jobs? Silly I know but does my 'excuse' entitle me to have anything over the 3 inch/fixed blade rule or will I still need fit the blade to the job to be safe?

Steve.

LOL. Just my opinion but I think if the blade strays too far from the norm used for the claimed activity then you would actually raise a cop's suspicions more rather than satisfying them.

 

[Martyn]

Another question on knife law, if you have a reasonable excuse or even use the 'for work' clause, do you then have to justify the type/size of the blade to fit with the activity?

I'm a sparky so sometimes have a Leatherman Wave on my belt which I feel is reasonable for my job but what if I had say a Kukri or similar machete for stripping cables and other elecy related jobs? Silly I know but does my 'excuse' entitle me to have anything over the 3 inch/fixed blade rule or will I still need fit the blade to the job to be safe?

Steve.

I think common sense answers that. If I was a magistrate and you told me the kukri was for stripping wire, I'd laugh at you and lock you up for wasting my time.

 

[Kepis]

I think common sense answers that. If I was a magistrate and you told me the kukri was for stripping wire, I'd laugh at you and lock you up for wasting my time.

Unfortunately Martyn, these days Common Sense is the most UNcomon sense with what appears to be a fairly good sized chunk of our population

 

[ateallthepies]

Yes my example was a bit extreme but from your answers the idea that having a genuine reasonable excuse lets you carry what you like would be a no and discretion is still needed?

I guess it would be up to the magistrate like you said Martyn to decide if say a bushcrafter actually needs an 8 inch Bowie over 4 inch Woodlore?

Steve.

 

[Martyn]

Yes my example was a bit extreme but from your answers the idea that having a genuine reasonable excuse lets you carry what you like would be a no and discretion is still needed?

Steve, you have it back-to-front, there is no such thing as a reasonable excuse to carry what you like. You need a reasonable excuse to carry that particular knife (whatever knife it might be). If you have one, you have one, if you dont, you dont. If you get ask why you have a leatherman and you say because I'm a spark and I need it for work - that would seem reasonable to me. If you get asked why you have a kukri and you give the same answer, that would not seem reasonable to me, but if you said you were using it for land clearance, that would seem reasonable to me. It's perfectly logical, common sense. There is no universal get out of jail free card, but the law is completely logical. You seem to be hunting for a "tell me what I can have, when and where" answer and there isn't one. The answer is always different because it always depends on circumstances and context. If you were waving that same kukri round at a football match, it would be illegal and rightly so.

 

[mrcharly]

I believe that a jury is supposed to be made up of peers, but what if you get a bunch of lefty idiots who believe the scum need a hug instead of jail?

I'm a 'lefty', and I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that being left wing means being an idiot and not defending your family.

I think the left-wing miners of the 80s might object being thought of as 'soft' as well.

If you are worried about being hauled up in front of the beak for defending your family, does that mean you would be scum? You seem to be confused.

There have been a couple of cases recently where an intruder has been seriously hurt by the householder, and the householder has not been prosecuted.

 

[ateallthepies]

OK sorry for the offence mrcharly perhaps not the best use of words in my statement, probably should not generalize people.

Martyn, I'm not fishing for a universal get out clause even if it seems that way, I genuinely did not know that we would have to justify the type of knife as well as having a good reason.

Steve.

 

[Martyn]

OK sorry for the offence mrcharly perhaps not the best use of words in my statement, probably should not generalize people.

Martyn, I'm not fishing for a universal get out clause even if it seems that way, I genuinely did not know that we would have to justify the type of knife as well as having a good reason.

Steve.

Steve, in general terms, the type of knife needs to be appropriate to your excuse for having it or your excuse wont be convincing. If you cant convince the police, the CPS and ultimately the court that your excuse is genuine and reasonable, then you will be convicted.

I say in general terms, because the police wont be interested in the difference between a leatherman wave and a victorinox supertool.

You are over-analysing it, just use your common sense.

 

[Martyn]

I'm a 'lefty', and I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that being left wing means being an idiot and not defending your family.

I think the left-wing miners of the 80s might object being thought of as 'soft' as well.

If you are worried about being hauled up in front of the beak for defending your family, does that mean you would be scum? You seem to be confused.

There have been a couple of cases recently where an intruder has been seriously hurt by the householder, and the householder has not been prosecuted.

These threads do always seem to being out the Daily Mail in people dont they?

 

[spandit]

These threads do always seem to being out the Daily Mail in people dont they?

I haven't seen any mention of immigrants causing cancer...

 

[Robbi]

These threads do always seem to being out the Daily Mail in people dont they?

I like your spelling, i also like the way you put a at the end of a provocative sentence, what's wrong with the Daily Mail ? just your opinion or a direct dig at Daily mail readers ? .....if so, why ?

bit of a troll statement there Martin.

 

[spandit]

I like your spelling, i also like the way you put a at the end of a provocative sentence, what's wrong with the Daily Mail ? just your opinion or a direct dig at Daily mail readers ? .....if so, why ?

bit of a troll statement there Martin.

Bit rich to take the **** out of his spelling and then spell his name wrong...