Veganism

[Tengu]

Your quite right abouty the tibetians, Bamboodoggy; this is why so many animals in Tibet fall over cliffs or suffer nasty leg injuries which mean they have to be put out of their misery.

 

[spamel]

I'm not vegetarian, I like a bit of cow or chicken now and then, maybe a slice of pig in a bun!! The thing is I think I eat way too much meat. There is no way we should eat meat every day and I am gonna change my diet accordingly. There are so many great tasting vegetables and fruits out there that I'm sure an interesting diet could be created daily without the need for meat.

I don't eat fish as much as I'd like too, and I really don't like fish to be fried unless it's traditional fish and chips from the chippy. I much prefer smoked fish. I tried sweet potatoes, butter nut squash, parsnips and red onions roasted in an oven a few months back. I'd never tried butternut or sweet potatoes before and was really impressed with them. I could eat them with every meal no problems!

I really want to change my diet though, not in the extreme way that crazy chick off telly who collects poo in tupperware does it, but something similar.

As for living off of what grows naturally in UK, I'd say it would be possible except that you'd have to travel a lot as the wild places are being developed and it will make foraging that much more difficult. Your plant lore would have to be top notch and I still think you may have to supplement it a bit with shop bought goods.

Think about it though, nettles, reed mace, blackberries and crab apples, sloes and cow berries/lingon berries, seaweed, hazelnuts, sweet chestnuts and that is only a quick think of what is available in the UK. I know a lot of these are seasonal, and I will have missed loads as I'm no expert in this field by a long shot, but what do you think our ancients did during the long summers, play scrabble?!!!

They would be preparing for the coming of winter constantly, prepping foods to keep for the colder months when food stocks were difficult to replenish. If you read some of the Earths Children books by Jean M Auel, she goes into great detail of people in the ice ages taking advantage of the good weather in the short summers to prepare for the winter. Fruits can be dried or preserved, meat can be smoked or dried, seeds and the like can be stored dry ready for use in the winter months. A lot can be achieved, but it would be hard work. This must one reason why man bands together into communitys, so that they can cover more ground and work on gathering a variety of foods quickly.

 

[Toddy]

Any others here vegan?
And also what are your views on it? is it possible to be vegan and survive in the bush? is it possible or is veganism a choice only avilable cause of the society we/I live in today.....

Not Vegan, pretty close though and fully Vegetarian for most of my life.
Personally I know that humanity does not need to eat meat or to exploit animal based resources to thrive over most of the lands we live in. In some areas, such as the Arctic, however it would be impossible to exist on the natural resources without using animal resources.
If a sufficient area with a broad flora is available then it is possible to exist healthily Vegan in a temperate climate, but it's a lot of work and really only succeeds well when some kind of cereal farming is possible.
Prior planning and preparation makes it much easier. It's the sort of thing to grown into (literally ) I tried it many years ago (late Autumn) and found that either I was hungry or working too hard at finding food; even the addition of a bowl of porage a day made all the difference. I think a lot depends on the Season of Year too.

cheers,
Toddy

p.s. cross post with Spamel

 

[madrussian]

No I will not. I was going to poke fun at your philosophy. I have decided to take the high road so to speak. I feel it would be wrong of me to ridicule your lifestyle. I would not appreciate it if someone ridiculed me for eating meat. So I will refrain from making fun of someone who doesn't. In the states we have a few people that try to force there ideas on the majority, like animal rights activists and so on, and I get a little peeved when they spout their nonsense. But if someone wants to live as a vegan, who am I to ridicule them or try to make them live by my philosophy. If you can do it and are happy, then go for it. Personally, I prefer a little meat in my diet. But I try to be balanced. So carry on, I will not poke fun at you. Not this time anyway.

p.s. See post #37 for the basis of this response.
M

 

[Tengu]

A lot of this seems to be mere sophistry,

I could say that even though I eat a lot of meat, the animal is not killed for my use, as, a cow say, I have a few meat scraps for stir frys and mince, a few bones for soup and if I can get one cheap, the heart. (ox heart is a real prize)

I certainly cannot afford the choice cuts for which I assume the animal is reared for.

Spamel is right in saying that many peoples gathered and preserved food, but some primitive societies did not. (the natives of tierra del fuego, for instance. Who lived naked in a harsh climate, ate mostly meat, and unless old or ill or very unlucky, did not seem to suffer shortages like an agrarian society would)

 

[PhoneticHalo]

No I will not. I was going to poke fun at your philosophy. I have decided to take the high road so to speak. I feel it would be wrong of me to ridicule your lifestyle. I would not appreciate it if someone ridiculed me for eating meat. So I will refrain from making fun of someone who doesn't. In the states we have a few people that try to force there ideas on the majority, like animal rights activists and so on, and I get a little peeved when they spout their nonsense. But if someone wants to live as a vegan, who am I to ridicule them or try to make them live by my philosophy. If you can do it and are happy, then go for it. Personally, I prefer a little meat in my diet. But I try to be balanced. So carry on, I will not poke fun at you. Not this time anyway.

p.s. See post #37 for the basis of this response.
M

So you were posting to say your not going to post. Always nice to know? and taking the high road would be to not post at all. Not to imply that you have some kind of answer? And why do you have to make fun? Why cant you post somthing of intelect that we can read and dicuss?

 

[bambodoggy]

Tadpole, all I said was that there was a theory that eating meat caused the brain to grow and therefore evolve. Your copied bit seemed to say I was wrong by bringing neanderthals into the discussion, however the rest of the link you provided on request seemed to agree with what I was refering too, I don't knwo the ins and outs....I'm a Tree surgeon not a scientist!!!!

Now you've been called out on it you change you arguement to include the cooking of food, maybe it'd be better not to pretent you know everything in the first place. Sorry if that sounds harsh but that is my opinion.

You also now look desperately to prove me wrong over the origins of a word.....why?
You talk about me not reading posts properly but if you'd read mine then you'd see that I quoted not from Wikipedia which you have later linked to but from the Wikipedia Dictionary (there's a link to it on the right hand side of your link if you can't find it).
Personally I don't know the origins of things that well and only looked it up before for a bit of fun....again you felt you had to try and prove me wrong.....why?

We can all go on line and tippy tap away to find things out, personally I've spent the day out in the woods where I have to remember everything I know and not rely on googling it to find it.

Interesting reading ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for all the information

It would be appreciated if we could return to the topic though.

cheers,
Toddy

Toddy, my appologies for being part of dragging this off topic. I will not joust with Tadpole anymore in this thread.... sorry

I'd still like to hear Vegans views on natural death uses for animals though.

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[jamesoconnor]

Humans started out as vegetarian primates, evolved into opportunist omnivores, eating carrion, bugs, insects, rodents etc, evolved into meat eating omnivores.

Learning to cook food freed humankind from the need to bulk up our diet with raw meat, we are evolving all the time, and now we are evolving past the need to eat massive amounts of meat.

Primates today are not wholly vegetarian. It has been noted in the wild that chimpanzees our closest cousin, go out on trips to obtain meat, even going as far as canabalism of other neighbouring territories to get meat.

 

[Tadpole]

Primates today are not wholly vegetarian. It has been noted in the wild that chimpanzees our closest cousin, go out on trips to obtain meat, even going as far as canabalism of other neighbouring territories to get meat.

I’m pretty sure that nearly all modern animal eat some form of meat in their diet, be it by choice, or accidentally. I’m sure that an elephant stripping bark, off of a tree, will not be all that bothered if there are incest grubs inside.
As for modern primates, I’m sure that, like their ancestors the amount of meat they eat or not was dictated purely by their location and its availability. Some like the orang-utans eat meat purely as an incidental part of their diet, like the elephant example, their browse contains insect life, (saying that orang-utans eat honey, and eggs, neither of which is vegetarian option.) Gorillas are known to eat quite a lot of termites in some cases it can be (by remain weight) up to 24% of their diet.

Back on topic, I’m not a vegetarian or vegan, I think that as we have, or at least should have evolved past the need to consume so much farmed meat. Just because early Homo sapiens had a diet that was made up of something like 50% meat, does not mean that we still need to. 100,000 years ago some of mans ancestors (Krapina Man) ate each other, either for food or as a mark of respect, do that men we should do so now?

 

[Toddy]

No worries Bam
The tone of the thread was defintely heating up but I've given fair warning to all concerned. Your courteous response is appreciated though.

I agree that the question of "naturally/ accidentally/ something else killed it" meat and Vegans/ Vegetarians is of interest.
Personally, I'd go hungry. I know it's not logical but it is an honest reply.

I thought the Bonobo was our closest relative and their answer to aggression, hunger, sadness, happiness, any emotion really, appears to be lots of "good luvin' "

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tadpole]

No worries Bam


I thought the Bonobo was our closest relative and their answer to aggression, hunger, sadness, happiness, any emotion really, appears to be lots of "good luvin' "

cheers,
Toddy

On a purely genetic basis, there is no evidence to prefer chimpanzee over bonobo as our "closest relative." It is only when looking at behaviour; it was deemed the bonobo was more like us, given the gentle herbivores that the chimpanzee were. Well that was the case until Jane Goodall studied chimps in the wild, and realised that they, as jamesoconnor said, some primates like the chimpanzee hunt, eat meat and wage war on others

 

[jamesoconnor]

I know that this is straying a bit off topic and I don't want to hijack this thread but I'd thought that you all might to have a look at this video....
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/animals/video/chimp_huntingmonkeys.html
and read how they have developed tools for hunting..
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070303/fob2.asp
http://www.greendiary.com/entry/can-chimps-hunt-by-means-of-a-spear/

 

[andyn]

Firstly, just an appologie for taking this off-topic....But....

On a purely genetic basis, there is no evidence to prefer chimpanzee over bonobo as our "closest relative." It is only when looking at behaviour; it was deemed the bonobo was more like us, given the gentle herbivores that the chimpanzee were. Well that was the case until Jane Goodall studied chimps in the wild, and realised that they, as jamesoconnor said, some primates like the chimpanzee hunt, eat meat and wage war on others

Tadpole, no offence mate, but if your going to cut and paste from the internet from other people's copyrighted work then you really should a) quote it accurately or b) Not do it in the first place.

I'm sure Jason Godesky would be really annoyed to find out you were ripping off what he has posted on The Anthropik Network.

So suppose I best link him for you before you get yourself and Tony in trouble: http://anthropik.com/2006/03/our-closest-relative/






:aargh4: :aargh4: :aargh4:

 

[Tadpole]

Firstly, just an appologie for taking this off-topic....But....




Tadpole, no offence mate, but if your going to cut and paste from the internet from other people's copyrighted work then you really should a) quote it accurately or b) Not do it in the first place.

Offence taken,
If you read the post I did not claim that I did the work, were I to be using the contents for a formal paper or article I was writing I would have given due reference to the author of the post, however this is not the case.
This is an informal post on an informal board and unless I start to see you and every other person sighting their sources, stating who what where when the originator of not only the article but also the originator of the idea. I do not see anyone demanding this of other poster on this board. And until I do I will continue to post as I do now.

And Just so you know, I googled two lines from that blog and found 42 almost direct copies, some from 2002. yet the The Anthropik Network does not list all it's Sources

 

[Silverback]

Ouch that's gotta hurt

 

[andyn]

Offence taken,
If you read the post I did not claim that I did the work, were I to be using the contents for a formal paper or article I was writing I would have given due reference to the author of the post, however this is not the case.
This is an informal post on an informal board and unless I start to see you and every other person sighting their sources, stating who what where when the originator of not only the article but also the originator of the idea. I do not see anyone demanding this of other poster on this board. And until I do I will continue to post as I do now.

And Just so you know, I googled two lines from that blog and found 42 almost direct copies, some from 2002. yet the The Anthropik Network does not list all it's Sources

Well i didn't follow all the sources from their site so I couldn't say one way or the other. If they did, then well its just someone else's copyright your taking then.

Shame if its offened you, like i said there wasn't any intention for it to do so. Just that information on the internet is under copyright as much as it is elsewhere.

Oh and for the record...no where in the post does it say its not your opinion!?!?!

 

[ScottC]

We've already seen two examples of plagiarism in this thread on your part, wonder how many of your other posts are in the same vein!

 

[Tadpole]

. Just that information on the internet is under copyright as much as it is elsewhere.

do you have a source for this as this "idea" is already on the net in several places

We've already seen two examples of plagiarism in this thread on your part,

This is an almost direct quote from CBS sportsline.com, yet you don’t quote your source

 

[Silverback]

do you have a source for this as this "idea" is already on the net in several places


This is an almost direct quote from CBS sportsline.com, yet you don’t quote your source

I don't get it - anyone got a link so I can look it up

 

[twisted firestarter]

I'd still like to hear Vegans views on natural death uses for animals though.Bam.

Hi Bam.
I would have thought that if an animal had died a natural death it means that it's body had packed up through old age or disease. Maybe the question should be more about eating roadkill in an extreme survival situation? I would, although I doubt I could keep it down for long.