Sharps confiscation

[stuey]

You are most probably right lou.
I've only been to a court twice both occasions to drop paperwork off for divorce. I've no problem with handing stuff over temporarily while on-site. What I do object to is being told incorrectly that my carrying a locking knife is "totally illegal whatever"

What amuses me more is that I am a reasonably regular visitor to a main city centre police station to deal with work paperwork, road traffic act stuff and variations to my FAC etc... Not once, never, have I been questioned about sharps carry despite attending meetings "within" the station.

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[maddave]

Never. And I carry a knife every day. I think it's about common sense. my sharps are away after dark and I never carry in shops/pubs or basically in built up areas.

 

[stuey]

Never. And I carry a knife every day. I think it's about common sense. my sharps are away after dark and I never carry in shops/pubs or basically in built up areas.

Agreed.

After dark definitely away.

Built up areas? When at work not possible as I work in the city.

Thankfully this is the sentiment of the senior police bods who we spoke to regarding work knives


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[Wayland]

Stopped a few times, asked about van contents once or twice, nothing confiscated yet...

 

[Jared]

Not me.

Even in the days where I used to carry a billhook (24" long) or axe in a rucksack too small to fully conceal them. Even after dark in the winter months.

 

[bob_the_baker]

As a teenager, illegally camping in some woods, the gamekeeper, 3 cops and a psychotic police dog confiscated a pile of pointy things, including a longbow. They kindly let us stay and finish our night out in the woods. All tools were collected the following day after a chat with us and our parents, no problem.
Never been stopped since, despite carrying a leatherman almost every day for the last 20 years

 

[Fatbob]

Your not wrong Lou1661 it comes under the court law act, no sharps are allowed on court premises, any sharp or bladed item that locks should be confiscated and NOT returned same with over 3 inch blades( these are handed over to the police for destroying), unlocking sub 3 inch blades are returnable if you write to the court requesting the item back within 28 days.

 

[stuey]

Your not wrong Lou1661 it comes under the court law act, no sharps are allowed on court premises, any sharp or bladed item that locks should be confiscated and NOT returned same with over 3 inch blades( these are handed over to the police for destroying), unlocking sub 3 inch blades are returnable if you write to the court requesting the item back within 28 days.

Not heard of that act Bob.
Have you a reference so I can read up?
Thankfully I've no longer a need to visit the place voluntarily but every day is a school day



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[brambles]

That could be because it does'nt exist. Courts , like any other place, can refuse entry unless conditions are met. Security screening will stop people entering with items that are perfectly legal to posess on the basis that they could be used as weapons, present a danger to persons using the premises or be disorderly to the business of the courts. They will also stop people entering with food, drink, alcohol and drugs, even if prescribed. If the security staff find something they believe to be illegal they will seize it or call the police.

 

[mohd]

1. Some times in 2003 or 2004, my son wanted to register for a English course in British Council in Ampang Road, Kuala Lumpur. So I accompanied him there and I'd my Case folding knife in my slack pocket. Walking through the metal detector door which gave a buzzing sound I was asked "Are you carrying any metal objects?". So I said "Of course! Those are my car key, lighter, belt buckle, wallet, hp, watch etc etc! Want me to take them all out?". I noticed the security personnel just watched my eyes, gave a smile and let me through.

2. About the same time, I visited a computer installation in Petronas Twin Tower again in Kuala Lumpur. And the same Case folding knife was in my slack pocket. Before walking through metal detector door I was asked to empty my pocket and to place them and other metal objects in a plastic basket. So I just simply complied with the security personnel's request. Once through the door I noticed few security personnel just watched my face and all my belonging including my Case folding knife were returned back to me.

My Case folding knife.

3. Some times in 2007 or 2008 I got a call from a Police officer who detained my son and his friends after they found a khukuri in my car which was borrowed by him. So I went to the police station and declared that the khukuri as well as the car is belong to me. The 12" OAL khukuri was place there because I wanted to go to my hometown village on the following day to do some clearing works in my coconut land. After that my son (i.e. and his three student friends), my car and my khukuri were released with a warning that I shouldn't place a khukuri in the passenger area of the car but it should be placed in the boot with all my working clothes and other agricultural tools.

My 12" Dhankuta khukuri.

mohd

 

[lou1661]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/790/contents/made
Found this afternoon a quick search on Google about courts.

 

[John Fenna]

I always have at least one knife on me, usually several if you count key ring tools ... I find I like the tools on one knife/multi-tool but the blade on another, want to have both pliers and screwdriver in use at the same time (like for tightening nuts and screw bolts) and while SAKs and Multi-tools generaly come with SS blades I prefer a carbon blade without a fistful of other tools...
Although I have been stopped by the police on a couple of occassionns in my van (which always carries a bunch of tools - ax, saw, knives etc) I have never once been asked about blades!
If travelling by air I always slip the bladed items into my hold luggage before check in - the one time I forgot (along with a couple of others in the team returning from an exped), the guy x-raying hand baggage held everything up while I nipped back to check in and put the tools in the hold luggage.

 

[stuey]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/790/contents/made
Found this afternoon a quick search on Google about courts.

Superb thanks Lou!

Interesting reading. Looks like I was lucky to get it back on the spot without having to request its return in writing!

No mention though of the locking or sub 3 inch stuff that Bob was referring to.

Should I need to go to a court building again I will ensure I have nothing sharp on me!

Going back to the point about me being ignorant... Maybe I was in this case or just naïve



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[boatman]

Small bet that rather than going through all this routine that courts have a box into which knives are placed and from which they are returned when the owner leaves.

 

[Fatbob]

Sorry Brambles but it does exist, Having worked as head of security in a crown court for the last 6 years I am quite used to people asking why we take things off them, it's the court law act of 2003, and lets face it 80% of the customers we deal with you would not trust with a blade so its for the safety of the other 20% we confiscate blades. We do not hand blades with locking mechanisms or over 3 inches as there is no justification for having one on you in a court of law, the customer is more than welcome to take this up with the police but the few that have have ended up cautioned or prosecuted. Anything else as the legislation states is returned if claimed within 28 days.
As a person who carries a blade every day I understand the right to carry one but use common sense, I don't carry one in a court or a school etc .

 

[boatman]

Er how could the person whose knife had been confiscated be prosecuted as after the confiscation they no longer were in the possession of the knife so the prosecution would have to prove, yes prove, that at same date in the past they had the knife on them without reasonable excuse. References please.

Being conned into accepting a caution doesn't count.

 

[Jackdaw]

Er how could the person whose knife had been confiscated be prosecuted as after the confiscation they no longer were in the possession of the knife so the prosecution would have to prove, yes prove, that at same date in the past they had the knife on them without reasonable excuse. References please.

No references, just common sense and several years of policing behind me.

When an offence has been committed the legal right to prosecute does not diminish with time. i.e. I hit someone in the face three years ago but have not been charge or prosecuted in the mean time does not mean that I will not/or that the CPS cannot prosecute at a later date. It is just a case of the CPS making a decision on whether there is enough information/evidence to result in a conviction. Should new witnesses come to light or new evidence, such as my sudden confession as I had a sudden attack of guilt, then it is likely that I would be prosecuted at some future time.

In the case being discussed there is enough evidence. Not only do we have the witness of a security guard we may also have the incident recorded on CCTV which is pretty standard in court buildings. And we also have the defendent who has himself rung the police to report that they attended a court building with a knife that was subsequently confiscated under the Court Law Act 2003.

It's a bit like saying someone who has managed to drive home drunk shouldn't be prosecuted once they have got home as they are no longer driving.

 

[stuey]

Have found the Courts Act 2003 but not the Court Law Act 2003. Assuming they are the same.

Anyway, nowhere in that act does it say anything about locking knives nor knives over 3inches not being eligible for return to their owner apart from the following case :

"If a court security officer reasonably believes that a retained knife may be evidence of, or in relation to, an offence, nothing in subsection (3) prevents the officer retaining the knife for so long as necessary to enable the court security officer to draw it to the attention of a constable."

I would link to the relevant legislation but I'm struggling to do that from my phone.

Like I say.... I have learned a lot from this discussion and will think more carefully where I am heading in future when carrying my issued edged tools

Raises an interesting question surrounding surveying trees in schools too



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[lou1661]

I would have thought it was due to the fact you need a good reason to have a fixed blade or locking folder, I'm also guessing that walking into a court is not a good reason.

 

[stuey]

I'm also guessing that walking into a court is not a good reason.

Fair point.

It does not preclude the owner of the locking or fixed knife from requesting in writing its return which is what Bob is suggesting is not permitted.



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