Sharps confiscation

[presterjohn]

You would have to be a bit of a nut to take a lock knife or long bladed folding knife into a court and expect to get it handed back to you. No reason exists on this earth for you to have one in a court room so if you got away with it just being taken off you then you have been very lucky indeed. I feel sorry for those that have little SAK's or similar affixed to a bunch of keys. Some jobsworths can go overboard with those I feel. The most sensible thing would be to tell the person carrying to put it back in the car rather it go in a box and then refuse to hand it back without a written request.

As for me I have never had my car searched or my body by a policeman or security guard other than at airports or court. On those occasions I had stored my blades in the car.

 

[presterjohn]

Fair point.

It does not preclude the owner of the locking or fixed knife from requesting in writing its return which is what Bob is suggesting is not permitted.





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But you would be an idiot to do so.

 

[lou1661]

Fair point.

It does not preclude the owner of the locking or fixed knife from requesting in writing its return which is what Bob is suggesting is not permitted.



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You could ask for it to be returned, but I would have thought as had no valid reason to have it, they have no valid reason to give it back to you

 

[boatman]

You could ask for it to be returned, but I would have thought as had no valid reason to have it, they have no valid reason to give it back to you

It was your property which is, or used to be sacred. And, perfectly legal to be owned.

 

[sargey]

prior to 9/11 twin towers incident i only once had any trouble walking onto a commercial airliner with a knife. flying back from a job in switzerland i had a large 111mm locking SAK hunter. the airline staff put it in an envelope with my name on it and the stewardess returned it to me as i was getting off the plane.

i do recall being stopped about 70 yards from my front door by police who asked me to empty my pockets onto the bonnet of their car. as emptying all of my pockets took some time, they got bored and sent me on my way. fortunately for me they failed to spot the tekna knife (dates it a bit) in amoungst all the other edc cluttery. had they realised what it was, i'd have been in serious trouble.

in my unofficial and unscientific sampling. police officers appear to fall into one of two categories. those who really don't know what the legislation is, (scary) and those who're quite sensible about it. one nice police lady did go so far as to say that if you look like a chav with nefarious intentions, they'll look for reasons to book you. other wise, a knife is a knife, and a multitool is a tool.

cheers, and.

 

[stuey]

You would have to be a bit of a nut to take a lock knife or long bladed folding knife into a court and expect to get it handed back to you. No reason exists on this earth for you to have one in a court room so if you got away with it just being taken off you then you have been very lucky indeed.

Nut? No mate not at all.

Works issue sub 3 inch locking opinel. Always in my pocket when at work. Good reason required. It is for work and risk assessment deems small lock knife to be most appropriate tool.

I was passing the court en route to a survey site and decided to drop paperwork off, not to attend court or go into a court room.

Was naïve and uninformed regarding Court Act 2003 and court security. Didn't even think about knife in pocket.

Yes I was very lucky to get it back on the spot without having to write in.

Yes the guard is wrong in his belief that it is illegal "full stop" to carry a locking knife in public. It is easy to see where this belief comes from when you read the CPS guidelines surrounding knives. They conveniently forget to state the "good reason" clause of the law.

Lessons learned and should I have to go there again I will leave sharps somewhere appropriate.




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[stuey]

You could ask for it to be returned, but I would have thought as had no valid reason to have it, they have no valid reason to give it back to you

Works issue. Part of my work equipment. Daily carry at work. I was at work as I walked past the court door and decided to drop the papers in.


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[stuey]

But you would be an idiot to do so.

Why?

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[boatman]

Further, there is a mechanism to safely have ownership of a knife in a court and that is to "park" it with the security official. Very sensible and civilised way of dealing with the situation and it is desirable for people not to have a knife on them in a Court. Pure nonsense to bring in the possibility of prosecution for someone obeying the rules. Same as casinos not allowing people to bring in sticks, they give them back when you leave.

As to the experienced person" knowing" that there must have been prosecutions I hope that he actually dealt with evidence in his cases. For all we can see this is not so in the same way as there seems to be a paucity of cases of blades being confiscated.

How many drunk drivers have been prosecuted past the time that the police could count back using alcohol actually present in the body? So conviction for driving the day after but no convictions or even prosecutions the day after that.

 

[stuey]

Further, there is a mechanism to safely have ownership of a knife in a court and that is to "park" it with the security official. Very sensible and civilised way of dealing with the situation and it is desirable for people not to have a knife on them in a Court.

Now interestingly I recall this being the suggestion when I emptied my pockets into the plastic tray as I went through the door.
It was when I had deposited said papers at the desk and asked for my knife back that he refused on the grounds of it being illegal to own as it was a locker. Thereupon began the discussion.

Which brings me full circle to the point I originally made.

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[presterjohn]

Why?

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Because he did not have a valid reason to have the blade in the court. He could therefore end up with a police record if pushed to get it back rather than just walking away from it lesson learned.

 

[Elines]

At Nottingham Crown Court (went there to sit in the public gallery - nice and warm in winter and just exercising my public right to 'see justice being done' - I had to hand in a Swiss army knife at the entrance - got it back on the way out

At Leicester Crown Court - going for the same 'see justice being done' reason, I realised on the way up the steps that I still had a ?whitney (can't remember the name) 4" or so locking knife in my bag that I had put there the day before when I went for a walk in the countryside.

This was about two years ago and I didn't understand the knife laws then as well as I do now. So .......... being a bit simple I declared the knife at the entrance, expecting them to keep it on one side and then give it me back when I left (as with Nottingham). The security bloke says 'Is that a locking knife?'. When I said 'yes' he called the police who took me into a side room and interviewed me.

I took a line of ' Sorry to have caused you a problem' but also emphasised that I had declared it, rather than it being found in a search. She wrote something in her little black book and I signed it - can't remember now what it was. They confiscated the knife (no big issue - not of sentimental value/expensive etc) and let me continue on my way into the court.

So maybe I received a caution - but wasn't obvious to me that I had if that's what it was. And presumably even if I have they are time limited??

 

[Mesquite]

Works issue. Part of my work equipment. Daily carry at work. I was at work as I walked past the court door and decided to drop the papers in.

Looking at it from a devils advocate point of view they could go down the line of...

Because you deviated from your route you could technically be deemed no longer at work and on a break as it was personal reasons you went in the court for.

Another argument they could use us as the court isn't your work place you didn't have a valid reason to have it on you when you entered.

Out of curiosity what is the job your company has decided that the opinel is the most suitable tool to do the job for?

 

[sandbender]

"...How many here have been stopped and questioned about what they are carrying/have in back pack/have in car? How many members here have had blades confiscated ?

No 'my mate told me he..." stories please..."

Having spent a couple of months walking across Turkey I was stopped by about ten policeman as I arrived at the front door of Istanbul Airport, my rucksack which had been wrapped up in plastic and gaffa tape was emptied there and then and my Alan Wood knife which had been wrapped in a jumper and sitting at the bottom of my sleeping bag, confiscated, explanations about hold luggage fell on deaf ears, I was handed a receipt and told that I could collect it at my destination (Amsterdam), perhaps somewhat surprisingly, after a search around for an office in Amsterdam airport, it was waiting for me.

Two chaps who attended a Woodlore 'Canoeing the Ardeche' course at the same time as I had opted to travel by Eurotunnel, when asked at the security gate if they were carrying sharps, they said yes and these were promptly confiscated with no offer of transit via 'guards van' or whatever.

In the UK I have never had a problem and I usually carry a UK legal knife or sometimes a possibly illegal multitool every day.

 

[stuey]

Out of curiosity what is the job your company has decided that the opinel is the most suitable tool to do the job for?

Following two accidents where folders closed on colleagues knuckles during normal use.

Mainly harvesting fungal samples (tough leathery usually needs a sawing action whilst balancing on tip toes )

Probing cavities using a probing stabbing motion which can result in closure

Cutting rubber spacer which generally pinches the blade during a sawing motion and can lead to the blade folding.


Some of us used to carry 18inch long sharpened metal probes to probe cavities with.... Of course these are deemed offensive weapons according to the act so imagine the look on the guards face if I had declared that!

Fair points about deviating from my work path.

As this is becoming a circular discussion and I have made my points and learned a lot I am bowing out


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[Tristar777]

Hi.
30yrs of collecting, using and daily carrying and Ive never been stopped or questioned. I always have carried a knife on my belt in a pouch and its never been a problem!

 

[boatman]

Bought a sword in Turkey. Security asked me to unpack bag for them to have a look at it. Smiles all round, a bit of fake fencing and sword put back in hold luggage. Onward journey home began no problems. But then we had nice chats with the American Homeland security people on our visit to the States.

 

[British Red]

I once had occasion to change a tyre on the side of the road.

Traffic cops pulled up and asked if all was okay...glanced in the (open) boot of the estate car and said "whats that lot then?"

Half a dozen rifles, couple of shotguns, three of four cases of ammunition

"Fair enough" said the copper "Going shooting?"

I bit my tongue on the reply ....something relating to Conan Doyles fictional detective and an absence of defecatory output sprung to mind!

Weirdly though, he never asked to see my ticket.

I have also walked into hotels with a DPM rifle bag in one hand, a .50 cal ammunition box in the other, through reception and no-one said a dicky bird.

I have been reliably informed by know it alls that my slip joint Ablett is "illegal".

I have been given grief by police for failing to co-operate and be suitably cowed - but it has never come to prosecution and most have been friendly and evidenced that they realise they are public servants and need to act as such. There are always unprofessional exceptions sadly, but there are in all professions.

 

[Jared]

Also remember buying an axe (kind of a compact miners style) for £4 in a car boot sale in Birmingham, and got the train to Cardiff with it poking out my back pack, with no problems.

 

[santaman2000]

I once had occasion to change a tyre on the side of the road.

Traffic cops pulled up and asked if all was okay...glanced in the (open) boot of the estate car and said "whats that lot then?"



"Fair enough" said the copper "Going shooting?"

I bit my tongue on the reply ....something relating to Conan Doyles fictional detective and an absence of defecatory output sprung to mind!

Weirdly though, he never asked to see my ticket.

I have also walked into hotels with a DPM rifle bag in one hand, a .50 cal ammunition box in the other, through reception and no-one said a dicky bird......

They say the best way to get away with anything is to be open and act like you know what you're doing. There was an occassion where a pair of POWs excaped from a NAZI POW Camp by having one of them with a tape measuring doors, gates, lamp posts, whatever, while the other jotted down the leasurments in a notebook. They walked out the front gate and across germany into the Alps doing that without being stopped. Another case was the theft of a USAF firetruck from a base in the Philippines. They just turned on the lights and siren and the gate guards stopped traffic for them.