Too true. And then the attitude test comes in to play!... BUT it only matters if you are being talked to by a policeman as to why you have it
Not More Knife Law
- Thread starter entropydog
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(big hairy fellow in greens/browns/camo) but because I'm not crashing around ect, nobody bats an eyelid, for all I know, I'm often mistaken for a farmer! . Ooooh rrrrr you means thurs two ov urs out der ....I know what you mean even my friends find my collection odd at home ,but everyone uses a knife every day to eat ect ect it's the most primitive tool yet the most successful but as stated I wouldent take a nice custom out unless I was deep in a forest ( wouldn't want pc taking it )but local woods I would take a bushcraft out and then my edc is a sub 3 non locking it's ok but limited supriseing how you get in to a bigger knife ,I work in London at the moment and after watching the news last week about a youth slashing a pc I'm not even caring my edc and feel naked it's like forgetting to put my watch on.
. Ooooh rrrrr you means thurs two ov urs out der ....I know what you mean even my friends find my collection odd at home ,but everyone uses a knife every day to eat ect ect it's the most primitive tool yet the most successful but as stated I wouldent take a nice custom out unless I was deep in a forest ( wouldn't want pc taking it )but local woods I would take a bushcraft out and then my edc is a sub 3 non locking it's ok but limited supriseing how you get in to a bigger knife ,I work in London at the moment and after watching the news last week about a youth slashing a pc I'm not even caring my edc and feel naked it's like forgetting to put my watch on.It's highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unlikely you'll get stopped at that point it's highly highly highly highly highly unlikely you'll be searched and if you are going to the woods for a spot of bushcraft it's highly highly highly highly highly highly highly unlikely they'll care.
The fact that theres such fear surrounding this and how hazy the law is speaks of a much more worrying problem than i want to think about.
The fact that theres such fear surrounding this and how hazy the law is speaks of a much more worrying problem than i want to think about.
really what Act and Para is bushcraft specifically said to be Not good reason
If you are proceeding to some where you are going to use a knife for a legal act then you have good reason. (going to a mates house to show him the knife is a good reason)
the Copper may not agree and if he doesn't know or understand (policemen are not expected to be absolute experts in all areas) or the Chief inspector has tied his hands and removed their ability to make a call you could get pulled in even if carrying a sub 3" non locker the CPS make the ultimate decision to prosecute.
if you want to follow the letter then S139 also means you cannot carry a sharpened pencil just in case you might want to write something but you can carry a blunt one and a sub 3" non locking pen knife to sharpen it as a folding pen knife is the only thing that is sharply pointed or bladed that has en exemption from requiring a specific good reason to carry
for ref
http://www.dorsetwoodlandblades.co.uk/lawcarry.html
ATB
Duncan
Have you seen some of those tactical pens with DNA catchers ,one end would penetrate and the other would make a mess , I do think any decent officer would read the situation in our favour . And if he was in the woods I'd be asking him a few questions .....
nowhere in law does it say its legal to wear shoes etc
the fact that subsection (4) exists and it doesn't just State Subsection (5) as the ONLY reasons means that that other activities are allowed nore would this part be in subsection (5)
English Law tells you what you cant do not what you can do
and you dont see every Bushcraft school staked out by Police waiting to search and arrest students as they enter or leave
ATB
Duncan
Ref: for the Subsections mentioned
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/33/section/139
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As others have said, Carry it in your pack, out of sight and though until you are using it, and if you dont think you'll use it for 10 mins, put it back in your pack.
After watching a folder close on my sisters fingers many years ago I now only carry one if I have no option, so a Mora is always with me. Used it a few times next to PC's and park rangers, who havent batted an eyelid.
The only guy I know who has been done for having a knife had it sticking out of a sleeve, his excuse was that it was religouse use, but it was a brand new 9" combat knife.
I'm a scout leader, and Need my clean CRB, but I still carry a Mora & Laplander when I need it. One of the other leaders IS a PC, and has a RM Branded Clipper on his belt when we need knifes for the activity.
Stop Worrying(it will show in your body language) dress smart/conservativly, and keep it in your pack and you'll not have any problems.
Also taken into context will be the contents of your pack. If its a kilo of weed and a machete, you might have a problem. If its a camera, Tarp kit and so on, it will be pretty evident you wont be using it for no good.
After watching a folder close on my sisters fingers many years ago I now only carry one if I have no option, so a Mora is always with me. Used it a few times next to PC's and park rangers, who havent batted an eyelid.
The only guy I know who has been done for having a knife had it sticking out of a sleeve, his excuse was that it was religouse use, but it was a brand new 9" combat knife.
I'm a scout leader, and Need my clean CRB, but I still carry a Mora & Laplander when I need it. One of the other leaders IS a PC, and has a RM Branded Clipper on his belt when we need knifes for the activity.
Stop Worrying(it will show in your body language) dress smart/conservativly, and keep it in your pack and you'll not have any problems.
Also taken into context will be the contents of your pack. If its a kilo of weed and a machete, you might have a problem. If its a camera, Tarp kit and so on, it will be pretty evident you wont be using it for no good.
The knife laws were the first introduced that go against the principle of "innocent until proved guilty", so much for the Magna Carta. Recently there have been more complaints aired in the press about people not getting the prescribed 5 year sentence or whatever the recommended sentence is. Fortunately, that shows that judges still sentence based upon all the facts in the case rather than the current Home Secretaries whims.
For most of my life I carried an Opinel knife, growing up in the country and riding old motorbikes it made sense. Now I carry a craft knife in my bike tool kit and my Mora Clipper only gets an outing going to and from camps.
If you are carrying a locking/fixed blade or one over 3" you should be have a good explanation why. But what is the chance of you going to get frisked? If you're that worried about it, the sensible thing is to not carry a knife at all. But keep your pencil sharp.
I imagine the US members must be astonished at the rights they hold dear being abolished in the UK.
Edited for poor grammar.
For most of my life I carried an Opinel knife, growing up in the country and riding old motorbikes it made sense. Now I carry a craft knife in my bike tool kit and my Mora Clipper only gets an outing going to and from camps.
If you are carrying a locking/fixed blade or one over 3" you should be have a good explanation why. But what is the chance of you going to get frisked? If you're that worried about it, the sensible thing is to not carry a knife at all. But keep your pencil sharp.
I imagine the US members must be astonished at the rights they hold dear being abolished in the UK.
Edited for poor grammar.
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At the end of the day, most knife crimes occur with kitchen knives that can be readily bought from supermarkets etc for a couple of pounds. Why would spend more money and time waiting/ making a knife just to hurt someone.
As said I don't worry about carrying a knife when I'm off to the woods as there is enough proof in my bag and if required pictures on my phone, the Internet etc that show my hobby and the tools required to practice this.
As said I don't worry about carrying a knife when I'm off to the woods as there is enough proof in my bag and if required pictures on my phone, the Internet etc that show my hobby and the tools required to practice this.
I stopped carrying the trusty fixed blade which had lived in my pack since my wife bought it for me nearly 50years ago because I couldn't bear the thought of some officious officer confiscating it. Although it had been with me on a ten week wilderness trip in the US and up through scandinavia to the arctic circle, not to mention numerous forays throughout Europe's wilder places, I replaced it with a SAK ruckcack locker which I carried in my pocket as EDC: it did the job. It wasn't until I read the excellent BUK knife law article that I realised it too was illegal. For the last few months I have carried a Wenger evolution soft touch: it does the job. I realise that I use the SAK every day, but haven't truly missed the "Bushman's Friend" now nestling in my knife drawer with the opinels, spyderco, lock SAK and worn out slipjoints. Incidentally, the only place I ever got frisked was when entering West Texas University Campus. The security guard merely told me to take the knife off my belt and put it in my pack. I looked at his 357 magnum and did as he said immediately.
When you carry a Mora knife ( a fixed blade and over 3" long )the Goverment says you ARE a criminal and need to be locked away to protect the public for 5 years Sooooo why not put your knife away at home and carry an AXE instead as there is no law on how big an axe you can carry I can see it now thousands of Bushcrafters with a Foresters axe tucked in there belt pushing a trolly round there local ASDA shopping for Boil in the bag meals on there way to a weekend camp.If a policeman stops you you can say but I am not carrying a Knife officer as that would be ilegal and I am a loyal citizen of the new World Order and there is no law saying how big an axe I can not carry. "Is there" ?
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under section 139 of the CJ act, it's BLADED article, it can be anything with an edge....
I carry multiple sharps every day - inc a Leatherman with a locking blade...never been stopped, never been hassled, it has never been an issue.
If you are a law abiding citizen who does nothing to atract the attention of the plod then you should never have a problem.....
My van is like a cutlery shop at times so I carry a camera and have the excuse that I am off to photograph the tools as part of my job as an outdoor journo....
should work.....
If you are a law abiding citizen who does nothing to atract the attention of the plod then you should never have a problem.....
My van is like a cutlery shop at times so I carry a camera and have the excuse that I am off to photograph the tools as part of my job as an outdoor journo....
should work.....
Perhaps a simple question to the open forum along the lines of:
Who has been stopped an searched by the police while partaking in 'Bushcraft' type activity in private or public woodland?
Would establish if there is a tangible issue to be concerned about..
I think after numerous threads that English knife law is reasonably well understood.
I personally cannot recall any threads where folk undertaking benign bushcraft activity have been stopped questioned or had their knives taken by police or ended up in the dock.
So it seems from my distant position that English knife law is English knife law and English bushcraft is English bushcraft and the two seem to co exist in reasonable harmony.
Probably because British Bushcrafters are a sensible lot and broardly do not fit the polices demographic of concern for knife crime...
Who has been stopped an searched by the police while partaking in 'Bushcraft' type activity in private or public woodland?
Would establish if there is a tangible issue to be concerned about..
I think after numerous threads that English knife law is reasonably well understood.
I personally cannot recall any threads where folk undertaking benign bushcraft activity have been stopped questioned or had their knives taken by police or ended up in the dock.
So it seems from my distant position that English knife law is English knife law and English bushcraft is English bushcraft and the two seem to co exist in reasonable harmony.
Probably because British Bushcrafters are a sensible lot and broardly do not fit the polices demographic of concern for knife crime...
It's not about a copper questioning you while you are at your camp carving a tent peg and slicing your dinner.
That is by all means a good reason aslong as your not using it as a weapon or to intimidate anyone.
If that weren't a good enough reason then the law should specifically state 'the only' circumstances where you can carry/use such a knife.
Has anyone asked a police officer about using a fixed blade responsibley in the woods?
I rang my local police station and the phone operator pretty much refused to answer my questions on section 139, she insisted it's illegal to carry a pocket knife with a sub 3" blade without a good reason even though it clearly says otherwise in the article I was I quoting about.
That is by all means a good reason aslong as your not using it as a weapon or to intimidate anyone.
If that weren't a good enough reason then the law should specifically state 'the only' circumstances where you can carry/use such a knife.
Has anyone asked a police officer about using a fixed blade responsibley in the woods?
I rang my local police station and the phone operator pretty much refused to answer my questions on section 139, she insisted it's illegal to carry a pocket knife with a sub 3" blade without a good reason even though it clearly says otherwise in the article I was I quoting about.
Ok how many Bushcrafters are stopped and searched or questioned by the police on a regular basis on the way to recreate on on the way back home??Is the fear of getting stopped actually backed up by any tangible examples of it happening to folk bushcrafting on a regular basis.Or is it in reality fear and paranoia??
None that i know of or have ever heard of.
That's about the jist of it as i see it.
I was at Portsmouth Naval Dockyard two weeks ago, i had my bag searched for security, well kind of checked, they looked in the bag but never actually looked in or under anything that was in there, not that they would have found anything other than a box of sarnies and a flask of coffee, they also didnt check the side pockets on the bag nor the top pocket, neither did i have my person or pockets searched, ok i didnt have a knife with me either, i didnt need one for what i was doing so being sensible, i left it at home, why create a problem in the first place?.
The security guy told me he was looking for weapons, in reality i could have been tooled up to the nines, ok, i also wasnt going anywhere in the yard where it was max security, but he told me it was illegal to carry a knife, i told him he was wrong and explained the sub 3" non locking blade stuff to him he then went onto say he was looking for fixed or locking blades, again i told him it wasnt illegal to own these and even a locking folder was legal carry with good reason, he actually thanked me for the advice and said he was unaware of the things i had told him.
Most of the problems people supposedly have are due to their attitude, im sure if i had come over all bolshy about having my bag searched or responded with major attitude the search would have been a bit more "intense", but as i freely offered my possessions and person to be searched ive obviously got nowt to hide and therefore, any potential "situation" is automatically defused by default, some people though are their own worse enemy and create problems where problems dont exist.
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Jon,
I don't want to sound rude, however any knife that is longer than 3" and/or has a fixed blade is illegal.
As bushcrafters we don't have a right to carry them, but they are classed as tools, so if you have a bushcraft knife and your on your way into the woods, have it at the bottom of your bag, then get it out when you make camp. There is no reason to have it on your belt in Tesco.
Like I have said they are illegal, however there is a defense in law, and it is for YOU to prove that you are innocent, not the police/courts to prove your guilt.
Your right the Police cant just search you for no reason, however they can ask you to give reasons for your actions, ie where you have been or where your going. If you become all "shifty" and they believe you have in your possession something you shouldnt have, they can search you.
When I go bushcrafting, I have an axe, folding knife and a fixed blade, they are all packed away in my bag, and come out when i get there.
I have experience of violence with knives and NOT once was it a bushcraft knife, however these are our laws and we have to stick to them
On a final note, if you are stopped by the police, be polite and explain what your kit is for, if you become all defensive they may take this as you have something to hide...
Ta
Woody...
I don't want to sound rude, however any knife that is longer than 3" and/or has a fixed blade is illegal.
As bushcrafters we don't have a right to carry them, but they are classed as tools, so if you have a bushcraft knife and your on your way into the woods, have it at the bottom of your bag, then get it out when you make camp. There is no reason to have it on your belt in Tesco.
Like I have said they are illegal, however there is a defense in law, and it is for YOU to prove that you are innocent, not the police/courts to prove your guilt.
Your right the Police cant just search you for no reason, however they can ask you to give reasons for your actions, ie where you have been or where your going. If you become all "shifty" and they believe you have in your possession something you shouldnt have, they can search you.
When I go bushcrafting, I have an axe, folding knife and a fixed blade, they are all packed away in my bag, and come out when i get there.
I have experience of violence with knives and NOT once was it a bushcraft knife, however these are our laws and we have to stick to them
On a final note, if you are stopped by the police, be polite and explain what your kit is for, if you become all defensive they may take this as you have something to hide...
Ta
Woody...
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