are we still allowed to be survivalists?

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pibbleb

Settler
Apr 25, 2006
933
10
51
Sussex, England
Fair point Lurch, I was just thinking the same thing whilst washing up.

it would seem I have become my own arguement where I've allowed a personal view of an individual developed over a fewthreads bubble over, so my apologies to one and all, if I wasn't on sick leave I'd head off to sit under a tree and give myself a good thinking to! :(

Pib
 

scanker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 15, 2005
2,326
24
52
Cardiff, South Wales
My brain's turned to jelly and I can't compose a decent reply. It was going to be something along the lines of "when I go off camping for the weekend and someone asks me where I'm going, I say 'bushcrafting'. To say 'surviving' would be nonsense.

If I was involved in some sort of incident/accident and could use some of my skills/knowledge to get me out of that specific situation I might be called a survivor. I don't think that makes me a survivalist. YMMV. Something like that anyway.
 

EdS

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
to me survival is going to work to get money to live in the modern world (actually I quite like my job so not to bad) bushcraft is doing something creative (cos i aint got no artisitc ability) and more or less useful to slow things down a bit to take the edge of having to survive.

Also a way of escaping and having a play. Then again I'm very luck as I can open my door an spit into the woods no need to go away for weekends - thems for climbing etc. So most of my "bushcraft" stuff is done at home.
 

drstrange

Forager
Jul 9, 2006
249
12
58
London
There are many opinions voiced on this thread and elsewhere on the site about the difference between 'bushcraft' and 'survivalism'. Probably the most popular one that I have read is "Survival is what you have to do, Bushcraft is what you want to do". Bushcraft, it is said, is a lifestyle choice, whereas survival training is what we do in order to equip ouselves with the knowledge and skills that we might need if we want to survive some dangerous and unwanted situation. Really?. I don't think a survivalist would say "I'm only doing this just in case, and I truly hope that I am never in a situation where I have to use these skills" wether they secretly fantasise about heroically leading a bunch of plane crash survivors out of the Andies or not. Likewise, I'm not sure that a "bushcrafter" would say "I hope the whole of concrete civilisation would dissappear so that I can live in peace with my bivvy and bowdrill", although they may also fantasise about being lost on their very-own desert island with only RM and MK for company.

To add yet another configuration of this thread's much quoted saying: "Buddha points at the moon and everyone stares at his belly"

To be completely frank, I think the term 'Bushcraft' sucks (Gasp! Gawp! Blasphemer!!!). I also think the term "Survivalist" sucks too, because as many people on this thread have pointed out, the term has aquired too many unwanted connotations, and, lets face it, people don't really do it to survive, unless they are in an occupation where a survival situation is a significant possibility, or if they are particularly paranoid, in which case, a visit to the nurse might be more useful than a survival course.

If we're not too careful "Bushcraft" will aquire as many unwanted connotations as survivalism has, indeed, the process has already started in earnest, as a quite natural response to people's declared affilliation with one or other bushcrafting fraternity.

Although I am extremely interested in the skills of practical ecological living and enjoy the exchanges on these fora, and have enjoyed meeting some of the lovely people who attended the Bushmoot, I don't want to be known as a 'bushcrafter' thank you very much (To the burning-stake heretic!!).

Why is it that whenever something really cool happens, people have to go and turn it into a club complete with badges, leaders, heirachies (I don't even know how to spell the word) and t'shirts, and, instead of getting closer to the environment and everyone in it, marignialise themselves as a "lifestyle cult" where their valuable contribution and influence on the rest of society is significantly reduced?

Why? Because people like to feel that they belong to something, but in trying to identify with some group, people are in danger of limiting themselves by definition, and the whole deal is in danger of becomming very boring indeed (Incidentally haven't noticed that many ladies around the 'bushcraft' scene, and that is always a bad sign).

I think, as do others on this thread, that the important thing about survival/bushcraft/outdoorism/treehugging/bug-eating is that it get's us out into nature and in tune with it, and the experience is sublime and extremely rewarding, almost spiritual.

In answer to the question which heads this thread "are we still allowed to be survivalists", I would say, stop calling yourselves anything and allow what you really are to emerge quite naturally and declare itself. Stop putting labels on dynamic, mysterious, awe-inspiring life and admit that you don't quite know what you are. Stop adding to the already saturated list of subculture definitions which do nothing but assist in the process of cutural fragmentation. Start to realise that the obsessive aquisition of 'survival skills' is basically selfish and threrefore strongly influenced by the demands of the ego and 'proving oneself' (I know that a lot of people do survival courses for a lot of 'healthier' reasons than this as well)

With this in mind, should we realy be calling ourselves "Bushcrafters" either??
 
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Marts

Native
May 5, 2005
1,435
32
London
I'm very confused now. Could someone clarify for me..

Is breathing a survival skill or a biological-reflex skill? I need to define it clearly or I may forget to do it. :confused:
 

drstrange

Forager
Jul 9, 2006
249
12
58
London
Quoting Marts; "I'm very confused now. Could someone clarify for me..

Is breathing a survival skill or a biological-reflex skill? I need to define it clearly or I may forget to do it."


Yes, I think we should start a club and call it "breathcraft"

Hi Marts!
 

drstrange

Forager
Jul 9, 2006
249
12
58
London
drstrange said:
Start to realise that the obsessive aquisition of 'survival skills' is basically selfish and threrefore strongly influenced by the demands of the ego and 'proving oneself' (I know that a lot of people do survival courses for a lot of 'healthier' reasons than this as well)QUOTE]

I admit that that was a little provocative :eek: Where has all my reputation gone!!! :confused:
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,962
Mercia
drstrange.

I think you will find that a previous group has already established many of the required skills and if you choose to re-badge this as "breathcraft" then so be it. However to many of us, this activity will always be "respiration". Indeed the military have many skills to offer in this area including some of the best equipment (respirators). Indeed I recall one day in the Khyber......

Red
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,715
1,962
Mercia
Lookdrstrange, with the greatest of respect, respiration has been practiced for generations in the military. All military personnel practice respiration during basic training, and it is generally accepted in a "contact" situation that those maintaing the skill for the longest period are the superior force. Now some of you civis want tp play at "breathing" thats fine, but I know for a fact that some of you are just kit hounds and that, in fact, some of you collect snorkels. A 300 pound snorkel with a redwood mouthpiece and neoprene tubing is stupid when a basic "Breathe Mora" will do the same job. Some people have gone as far as to fabricate their own snorkels using B&Q copper piping, but personally I doubt the quality of their heat treatment.

Red
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,989
4,638
S. Lanarkshire
I can't make up my mind whether they've been at the noyeaux or the Dr Suess :rolleyes:
:D
Toddy

p.s. as derivative fiction, they're being quite innovative :cool:
M
 
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