Hehe, I didn't know about the other uses...
SWMBO had surgery which reduced her ability to absorb vitamin B, but I'm sure she'll be interested to know of the hangover cure!
Legal issues uk
- Thread starter Hawk
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Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Hehe, I didn't know about the other uses...
SWMBO had surgery which reduced her ability to absorb vitamin B, but I'm sure she'll be interested to know of the hangover cure!
I still do not see the point in all those medicines being lugged around. You come on someone unconscious and without any diagnostic instruments decide to inject them with what? Is baloney a prescription drug for Walter Mittys?
Hawk, we are taught quite clearly on first aid courses that administering an epi pen must only be done with an epi pen prescribed for that individual.
They aren't a common component of workplace first aid kits. School nurses don't hold them in store for children or staff; the individual carries their own.
This is why I queried what you had written.
Toddy
They aren't a common component of workplace first aid kits. School nurses don't hold them in store for children or staff; the individual carries their own.
This is why I queried what you had written.
Toddy
But you can only buy epipens under prescription unless part of an organisation that requires them for possible use on its patrons? as in I cant just bimble in a buy some pens can I?
You're certainly describing how it works here. Only use an epi-pen on the individual it was prescribed for and only the pen in his/her possession.
Trust me everything I've written is true and legal. Probably easier for you to look up the relevant laws yourself if you don't believe me.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1830/article/7/made
I said in the first post that getting them wasn't easy. However there use in an emergency and possession is legal.
They are meant for particular circumstances the cyanide antidotes are kept in industries that use cyanide.
If someone is experiencing anaphylaxis or severe asthma a possibility in a bushcraft situation then they can be used by a lay person to help save there life.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1830/article/7/made
I said in the first post that getting them wasn't easy. However there use in an emergency and possession is legal.
They are meant for particular circumstances the cyanide antidotes are kept in industries that use cyanide.
If someone is experiencing anaphylaxis or severe asthma a possibility in a bushcraft situation then they can be used by a lay person to help save there life.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1830/article/7/made
Check out the law for yourselves.
I said in the first post it wasn't easy to get them, however there possession and use to save lives in an emergency is legal.
If you kept bees for instance and taught people about bee keeping it would be perfectly reasonable to ask your dr for an epipen in case one of your students developed anaphylaxis after a sting. At the time you obtained it in wouldn't be for you but it's still legal.
In a bushcraft situation snakebite, asthma or anaphylaxis is a possibility.
If you work in an industry that uses cyanide, having the antidote near by is handy too.
Check out the law for yourselves.
I said in the first post it wasn't easy to get them, however there possession and use to save lives in an emergency is legal.
If you kept bees for instance and taught people about bee keeping it would be perfectly reasonable to ask your dr for an epipen in case one of your students developed anaphylaxis after a sting. At the time you obtained it in wouldn't be for you but it's still legal.
In a bushcraft situation snakebite, asthma or anaphylaxis is a possibility.
If you work in an industry that uses cyanide, having the antidote near by is handy too.
In a bushcraft situation, snakebite; I want more than epi. Anti-venom and a snakebite kit would be more in order.
I've been there when it was done by another. Epi ain't gonna do a thing for a Moccasin bite. Or a Gila Monster. Or any venomous snake. It's not even in the protocols for snake bites (or at least it wasn't the last time I qualified)
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If your referring to a suction type device read the treatment section in link below
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite
There is a lot of evidence available about it.
From your profile I see you are in the USA the info I'm posting is uk based.
If you told me something about the USAF I would believe you until proven otherwise as I have no experience of it.
In this case I teach medics and know about the subjects i post about. If you can find some evidence that disproves what I'm saying fair enough but I'm not expecting you can.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snakebite
There is a lot of evidence available about it.
From your profile I see you are in the USA the info I'm posting is uk based.
If you told me something about the USAF I would believe you until proven otherwise as I have no experience of it.
In this case I teach medics and know about the subjects i post about. If you can find some evidence that disproves what I'm saying fair enough but I'm not expecting you can.
Simple enough about the USAF; Among other duties, I was the 1st aid instructor for my last 4 years. I qualified all 21 years (and all 13 years as a cop) Epi has never been on the protocol. Why on Earth would you want to inject adrenaline into someone who's system is already compromised by a chemical (venom) that might easily be a heart stimulant? It's not the same thing as a known mild poison such as bees. Granted you only have one venomous species in the UK so possibly its venom might be the opposite; I don't know.
As to the suction devises, they were once on the protcols but were removed about 20 years ago.
I've got to ask; given your qualifications, why are you citing wiki as a reference? And BTW that reference reccomended using epi to treat anaphylaxis caused by the antivenom, not for treating the snakebite.
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If you check what I posted you will see that I never said to use adrenalin for snakebite what I said was the drugs on the list could be used for treating a variety of conditions including asthma, anaphylaxis and snakebite as the list contains hydrocortisone, anti-histamine, adrenalin and snake venom.
As to wiki it was the first reference I found I'm using a phone not a computer so prolonged multi screen searching isn't an option. and the basic facts stated are correct unless you can present some medical evidence to the contrary.
It was you that said you would like a snake bite kit I was just showing its not current practice. If you know they are out of fashion why did you say you wanted one.
In any case we are off topic now. The original post was meant to highlight two things.
It's not illegal in the uk for a lay person to be in possession of any POM unless it's a controlled drug.
And the original list can be administered legally by anyone in a life saving emergency.
Both are law and fact
As to what else you might want in your first aid / medical kit that's a different topic.
As to wiki it was the first reference I found I'm using a phone not a computer so prolonged multi screen searching isn't an option. and the basic facts stated are correct unless you can present some medical evidence to the contrary.
It was you that said you would like a snake bite kit I was just showing its not current practice. If you know they are out of fashion why did you say you wanted one.
In any case we are off topic now. The original post was meant to highlight two things.
It's not illegal in the uk for a lay person to be in possession of any POM unless it's a controlled drug.
And the original list can be administered legally by anyone in a life saving emergency.
Both are law and fact
As to what else you might want in your first aid / medical kit that's a different topic.
Diabetics self administer santamen.
I read somewhere last week that you will be able to buy Ventolin Evohalers 'over the counter' and Supermarkets will be selling them at about £7 each.
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
It is what can be adminstered safely is the bigger issue. anaphylaxis and asthma are far more likely for layman to find out walking somewhere remote than a nerve agent attack, vertually everyone that knowingly has these conditions carries their own meds. I cant see how adminstering atropine and adrenaline can be safe for anyone without medical training.
I know that epi-pens are the last resort. Everytime my allergic reaction is assessed the Doctors tell me this.
Even if I presented at hospital with anaphylactic shock they'll try the anti-histamine tablets (or injection of such) first.
Not naysaying your information Hawk; and I agree that in the UK we don't have many poisonous snakes outside the folks who keep them as pets or in zoos, the adder is pretty much it, yes ?; but sometimes we of this bushcraft community need it kept simple.
It would be appreciated if we didn't leave folk with the impression that any allergic reaction and it's safe and allowable to find anybody's epi-pen, or even one in a first aid kit, and administer it.
Adrenaline administered like that is a horrendous shock to the body; first aid courses make a point of saying that the aftermath can be worse than the cause, and first aid is first do no harm.
Interesting to read the 'legalities' of the situation though, and I'm pretty sure that in a survival situation somewhere remote from modern medical facilities, knowing how and when to administer such things as an epi-pen, or snake bite anti-venom would be a crucial skillset.
cheers,
M
Even if I presented at hospital with anaphylactic shock they'll try the anti-histamine tablets (or injection of such) first.
Not naysaying your information Hawk; and I agree that in the UK we don't have many poisonous snakes outside the folks who keep them as pets or in zoos, the adder is pretty much it, yes ?; but sometimes we of this bushcraft community need it kept simple.
It would be appreciated if we didn't leave folk with the impression that any allergic reaction and it's safe and allowable to find anybody's epi-pen, or even one in a first aid kit, and administer it.
Adrenaline administered like that is a horrendous shock to the body; first aid courses make a point of saying that the aftermath can be worse than the cause, and first aid is first do no harm.
Interesting to read the 'legalities' of the situation though, and I'm pretty sure that in a survival situation somewhere remote from modern medical facilities, knowing how and when to administer such things as an epi-pen, or snake bite anti-venom would be a crucial skillset.
cheers,
M
Hi rik, how are you doing?
I saw the inhaler post on first aid cafe forum. I think its £7 for two inhalers. You need to speak to pharmacist and complete a questionnaire.
Off course having training is important and also knowing the difference between an allergic reaction and true anaphylaxis which is a medical emergency for which adrenalin is the first line treatment. Sadly people die that have epipens as relatives are afraid to use them.
This is a bushcraft community which makes me think at some point they will be in a remote situation.
Do your own research or buy a book on the subject and learn more about it as one day you may be able to save someone's life
I saw the inhaler post on first aid cafe forum. I think its £7 for two inhalers. You need to speak to pharmacist and complete a questionnaire.
Off course having training is important and also knowing the difference between an allergic reaction and true anaphylaxis which is a medical emergency for which adrenalin is the first line treatment. Sadly people die that have epipens as relatives are afraid to use them.
This is a bushcraft community which makes me think at some point they will be in a remote situation.
Do your own research or buy a book on the subject and learn more about it as one day you may be able to save someone's life
Doing OK, the TB has left me short of breath though
Thankfully in Wales my inhalers are free
They do worry me a little being sold over the counter, I've seen more than one person admitted who's been over doing Ventolin and this could be more common if they start buying over the counter instead of relying on a regular prescription off the GP.
Yep, two for £7
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-inhalers-counter-patients-prescription.html
Thankfully in Wales my inhalers are free
They do worry me a little being sold over the counter, I've seen more than one person admitted who's been over doing Ventolin and this could be more common if they start buying over the counter instead of relying on a regular prescription off the GP.
Yep, two for £7
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...a-inhalers-counter-patients-prescription.html
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