What if? What if oil ran out tomorrow?

[Tourist]

There is an article in todays Sunday Times about Honda being ready to go with a Hydrogen powered car that will travel 250 miles on a refill.

They are unveiling it at a couple of upcoming motorshows. AND, they have stated they are also working on a domestic, as in an at home, hydrogen production plant because they realise there will not be the facility for roadside refueling in many countries.

They estimate the cost per gallon of commercial H will be around $2 - $3.

 

[gregorach]

Yeah - but it's hydrogen that's reformed from natural gas, so it's actually less efficient and more polluting than just burning the gas directly. It's a PR project.

Oh, and the tank is at 350 atmospheres.

 

[Tourist]

If that has been publically shown now you have got to ask what have Honda got tucked away in the back at the moment.

The Honda R & D chaps are normally 10 - 20 years ahead of what is available publically with their technology - so I was informed when I was researching with some Japs at Uni. Back in the Land of the rising Sun apparently Honda is held in high regard for not selling rubbish, the company likes to make sure it has all the bugs out before it relases stuff on the market.

Just look at their work in robotics and AI for the last 40 years, lots of expenditure but no income. Traditionally Asians take a longer term view of a problem or opportunity rather than the short term personal profit view taken in the west.

 

[commandocal]

In simple terms we will have to do what Humans do best and have done in the past, Adapt...The Iceage was alot as worse when 90% of the world was unihabitable, no food, we was the smallest weakest things around etc you get the idea .Im still young but even i know what complete idiots our "forefathers" ( right word??) where when they realised natural recources would run out but no they just went and farmed it somewhere else until it ran out and the cycle begun, what complete w*****s! even i would have realised it was limited and stopped this problem, forget the marines am' off into politics!!

 

[Eric_Methven]

Im still young but even i know what complete idiots our "forefathers" ( right word??) where when they realised natural recources would run out but no they just went and farmed it somewhere else until it ran out and the cycle begun, what complete w*****s! even i would have realised it was limited and stopped this problem, forget the marines am' off into politics!!

Hmmm, not quite young friend. Our forefathers generally looked after the planet, they were at one with nature and only took what they needed to live. Since the last ice age man as a species has slowly developed from a relatively small number of tribes into vast and powerful nations. The increase has been slow, but man has always co-existed with nature, and used replaceable natural products. It's only relatively recently, since the industrial revolution, the steam engine, the mining of coal, oil and other fossil fuels that the problems started. Man lost touch with nature through living in large artificial cities and towns, where many never ever even saw the countryside. Ever expanding industry and the greed of a small number of powerful men thirsty for profit before anything else caused the problems we face today. Even if global warming is a natural phenomenon, modern man is certainly exacerbating it.

Our forefathers will be turning in their graves seeing what has been done to the place they worked so hard to co-exist with.

 

[sleeperman]

getting back to the "what if" scenario, if we wait for big daddy (the government) to come to the rescue we`ll be in a lot of trouble. I believe that many people on this forum are already doing a lot towards self reliance, but so many have been soooo comfortable for so long that to do without the luxuries of the remote controlled, press of a button world is beyond horror. Almost two years ago the controls on both my gas fires broke and after whinging a bit I decided not to have them fixed, yes it was cold but i did`nt freeze, yes it was inconvenient but i got used to not having the instant heat they offered. Since then i`ve been trying to figure out what else i can live without or adapt to off grid methods (this is difficult as am in rented terraced house with no garden so trying to move) wind generation and solar energy offer some solution but will people give up leaving their HDTV,HIFI,STANDBYs on 24 hours a day.

 

[spamel]

I love my telly. It is one of the oldest and most loyal friends I have. Sad, eh! It is an old widescreen Sony, one of the first to have intergrated surround sound and god knows what else, I rarely watch it these days though. We are having some quality time at the moment as I just recieved the back catalogue of the old Dick Turpin series from back in the 70's and 80's. You know the one, with Richard O'Sullivan or whatever his name was. Not factually correct, but it is entertaining stuff, plenty of swashbuckling and pistols and the like.

Once the telly dies though, and I reckon it will one of these days, I won't rush to buy another. Any DVDs can be watched on the 'puter if I need, and the kids would get out a bit more perhaps or maybe find alternative ways to keep themselves amused. I have always made a point of getting them out doors when I can, my two year old kicked off yesterday as I took her older sister (as it was her turn to have a one on one quality time with dad) up the woods to have a brew on the hobo stove and to spy a couple of fly agarics, whittle a pretend knife and do a few other out doors things, as well as getting a lungful or two of fresh air and some turf under our boots.

So, will I miss the creature comforts of modern living? Yeah, probably. I'd miss music, that's for sure. Check out the thread with Dick Proenneke in, that is what I would want to do if my life permitted it. Perhaps if I had stayed single I could have ended up doing that and to hell with society. Now I have a duty of care for the family I love and cherish, so it won't be happening. That makes me sad a little, but I'd not give them up for the world.

 

[sleeperman]

yeah it is hard but i killed the TV a while ago and found out how much time i had. me and my lad went to see a movie a while back and when we came out all he said was he wanted his two hours back (hehe, he makes me so proud that boy) BTW I did give him his own electric fire so he was warm enough (instantly) he does a bit of craftin himself but it`s all a bit warhammer (should see their knives though)!!!!

 

[spamel]

I used to do Warhammer 40K, you need a good sharp craft knife for the making of those models. I reckon he will learn safe use of sharps quickly, you have to or you don't have fingers left to hold sharp stuff with!

 

[Martyn]

Hmmm, not quite young friend. Our forefathers generally looked after the planet, they were at one with nature and only took what they needed to live. Since the last ice age man as a species has slowly developed from a relatively small number of tribes into vast and powerful nations. The increase has been slow, but man has always co-existed with nature, and used replaceable natural products. It's only relatively recently, since the industrial revolution, the steam engine, the mining of coal, oil and other fossil fuels that the problems started. Man lost touch with nature through living in large artificial cities and towns, where many never ever even saw the countryside. Ever expanding industry and the greed of a small number of powerful men thirsty for profit before anything else caused the problems we face today. Even if global warming is a natural phenomenon, modern man is certainly exacerbating it.

Our forefathers will be turning in their graves seeing what has been done to the place they worked so hard to co-exist with.

That's maybe just a tad romantic Eric.

It's also worth noting that before the industrial revolution, man also co-existed with raw sewage, rats, extreme poverty, the bubonic plague, scarlet fever, smallpox, cholera, tuberculosis, hypothermia, gangrene, pneumonia, mass hunger, lepper colonies, no health care, illiteracy, short life expectancy, high infant mortality, cruelty, class-based feudalism, lawlessness, brutality, the death penalty, malnutrition, slavery, piracy, workhouses, gender discrimination, child-labour, conscription, colonial rule, the inquisition and the seven plagues of God.

But hey, at least they were wearing wool, right?

 

[xylaria]

I used to do Warhammer 40K, you need a good sharp craft knife for the making of those models. I reckon he will learn safe use of sharps quickly, you have to or you don't have fingers left to hold sharp stuff with!

We play D&D table top as a family. It is a lovely evening activity without tele. I banned TV last week during half term, so we can get out do something more interesting instead. I don't think need most of the trappings of modern life as much as we do. Washing machines are about the only appliance I have problems doing without. I can get a bit twitchy if I can't log on to here.

It's also worth noting that before the industrial revolution, man also co-existed with raw sewage, rats, extreme poverty, the bubonic plague, scarlet fever, smallpox, cholera, tuberculosis, hypothermia, gangrene, pneumonia, mass hunger, lepper colonies, no health care, illiteracy, short life expectancy, high infant mortality, cruelty, class-based feudalism, lawlessness, brutality, the death penalty, malnutrition, slavery, piracy, workhouses, gender discrimination, child-labour, conscription, colonial rule, the inquisition and the seven plagues of God.

Yes, we have go to NHS to get this all now

Western europe has had an energy crisis every time we have made a big leap in inovation. The ancient irish deforested thier land smelting copper and gold thousands of years ago. The tudors deforested england for simerlar reasons. Western europeans haven't live at peace with the environment for a very long time.

 

[spamel]

Is a short life expectancy such a bad thing really? With folk living into their hundreds, no wonder there is overcrowding and a crap pension!

 

[British Red]

I suspect your view on this will change as you get older Spam

 

[gregorach]

Probably should just let this thread die, but...

$96 (yes, you read that right, ninety-six dollars) a barrel today!

Will we hit the big $100? Scary stuff...

 

[madrussian]

Maybe I should have phrased the question differently. Like, What would you do if oil becomes to expensive to buy tomorrow?