And plan "B" consists of?
We don't need a plan "B" cause our plan "A" is guaranteed to work,
LS
We don't need a plan "B" cause our plan "A" is guaranteed to work,
LS
What if? What if oil ran out tomorrow?
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The original question was along the lines of what would we do it the oil ran out tomorrow and did we believe that the bushcraft mindset would be a benefit.
I think the answer is along the lines of we'll find something else and it's probably because of that very mindset of creative adaptability that humanity thrives.
Fortunately Malthusian economic and social speculations don't answer everything.
cheers,
Toddy
I think the answer is along the lines of we'll find something else and it's probably because of that very mindset of creative adaptability that humanity thrives.
Fortunately Malthusian economic and social speculations don't answer everything.
cheers,
Toddy
Wishful thinking I'm afraid. The population growth of the 20th century was fuelled by oil and coal. There is nothing that will come close to replacing these fuels. Most Malthusian forecasts predict that world population will peak soon, then fall back to 2 billion by the end of this century. I suspect that these forecasts will prove to be fairly accurate. Hopeing that some new technology will provide the answers is like assuming that you will be able to get a new credit card to pay off your other credit cards. Personally I use about 6000 litres of oil per year just for transport and heating. This does not include the oil used to manufacture my vehicle or the oil used to provide the associated infrastructure e.g. road lighting, plastic oil tank etc. When you add the 3 ton of coal I use plus energy used to produce the food I eat I probably consume the equivalent of 12000 litres of oil per year. The average amount of oil consumed per person in Europe and the UK is 3.9 tonne or about 5000 litres. Each litre of oil contains about 9Kwh of energy, this is not going to be easy to replace.
We dont need to replace all of it, prolly only around 20% is needed to maintain a functionally modern lifestyle. The rest we consume because we can, because it's easy, because it's the cheapest option at the moment and because we dont have to do anything else.
that puts my average beer consuption to shame, guess im just not trying.
even worse what if the worlds beer ran out ahhhhhh
even worse what if the worlds beer ran out ahhhhhh
Ah but, you see, beer is a food, and therefore a necessity of life 
Actually that's kind of true, if you want to know the water is safe to drink ( no buggits anyway) then just add a little alcohol. So start to brew up the barley and the first partial fermentation is called small ale or beer, pour off the liquor and allow it to brew some more for full strenght beer, meanwhile feed the mash of barley or wheat waste to the pigs, they get fat, humans get healthily happy and eventually enjoy bacon rolls
Toddy's theory of world peace; everything interacts to the benefit of as many life forms as possible.
cheers,
Toddy
Actually that's kind of true, if you want to know the water is safe to drink ( no buggits anyway) then just add a little alcohol. So start to brew up the barley and the first partial fermentation is called small ale or beer, pour off the liquor and allow it to brew some more for full strenght beer, meanwhile feed the mash of barley or wheat waste to the pigs, they get fat, humans get healthily happy and eventually enjoy bacon rolls
Toddy's theory of world peace; everything interacts to the benefit of as many life forms as possible.
cheers,
Toddy
necessaties of life: water, food,air,shelter,heat, leicester city football club, star trek, beer, boobs, cigs, ebay, bcuk,inebg,wood,stone, lucy pinder, pitty sex and afternoon naps lol
xylaria
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Ah but, you see, beer is a food, and therefore a necessity of life
Actually that's kind of true, if you want to know the water is safe to drink ( no buggits anyway) then just add a little alcohol. So start to brew up the barley and the first partial fermentation is called small ale or beer, pour off the liquor and allow it to brew some more for full strenght beer, meanwhile feed the mash of barley or wheat waste to the pigs, they get fat, humans get healthily happy and eventually enjoy bacon rolls
Toddy's theory of world peace; everything interacts to the benefit of as many life forms as possible.
cheers,
Toddy
I like the Toddy theory of world peace
Beer is a good source various B vitamins.
If anyone is very worried about the oil running out maybe using less stuff made now maybe a solution, by brewing your own ethanol and honing other such skills. Just a suggestion.
I think we are forgetting that this world is owned, controlled and run by an extremely wealthy and psychopathic elite who would think nothing of culling 5 or 6 billion of us useless eaters from the planet, leaving just enough of us alive for them to have jam on their toast for breakfast,( not that i`m paranoid or anything). maybe they`re even psychopathic enough to use one of their weaponised spanish flu pandemics they`ve been promising us for so long,(not that i`m paranoid or anything). Have I gone too far yet ? sorry guys, I`ll stop now, It`s cos I dont watch television you know!
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.
I have not read the whole of this thread, but I think I have the general gist of it.
What would we do??
Big question.
The problem lies about what would happen before rather than what would happen when.
We would probably look at the "Oil Wars" to start off with, the devestation that would be part of the aftermath for the countries that are heavily reliant upon Oil would have a neccessary knock on effect globaly.
There is no answer to the question as there are too many scenario's too actually account for. The best we can do is "SURVIVE".
This would not be over dramatic to say, the majority of the skills that are of ancient origin have been lost, the majority of skills that have a newer basis rely upon a lot of newer and petrochemical based technology.
Survival of the fittest doesn't neccesarily come into it either, at least to start off with, panic, looting, raiding, death and destruction will initially be a major problem, of course this being a factor the knowledgeable of bush craft and survival skills may not survive the initial onslaught from the ones who have little to no knowledge. After this it will be down to pure instinct and what little knowledge people have.
I have been looking into these scenarios for years and I have no answer to your question, people will do what they have to do and that is the final answer.
There is a particular thing that makes life a littel better and that is we are far better off now than we would have been 20 years ago as so many more options are now being looked into, but if you think that people cannot get to work, food cannot be transported and so many other factors the only initial feeling and response from people would be panic.
I do know of countries that have survived quite happily without Oil, but the petrochemical industry is very far reaching and effects us in ways that most of us are unaware.
We have done without it before, we can and will do without it again.
What would we do??
Big question.
The problem lies about what would happen before rather than what would happen when.
We would probably look at the "Oil Wars" to start off with, the devestation that would be part of the aftermath for the countries that are heavily reliant upon Oil would have a neccessary knock on effect globaly.
There is no answer to the question as there are too many scenario's too actually account for. The best we can do is "SURVIVE".
This would not be over dramatic to say, the majority of the skills that are of ancient origin have been lost, the majority of skills that have a newer basis rely upon a lot of newer and petrochemical based technology.
Survival of the fittest doesn't neccesarily come into it either, at least to start off with, panic, looting, raiding, death and destruction will initially be a major problem, of course this being a factor the knowledgeable of bush craft and survival skills may not survive the initial onslaught from the ones who have little to no knowledge. After this it will be down to pure instinct and what little knowledge people have.
I have been looking into these scenarios for years and I have no answer to your question, people will do what they have to do and that is the final answer.
There is a particular thing that makes life a littel better and that is we are far better off now than we would have been 20 years ago as so many more options are now being looked into, but if you think that people cannot get to work, food cannot be transported and so many other factors the only initial feeling and response from people would be panic.
I do know of countries that have survived quite happily without Oil, but the petrochemical industry is very far reaching and effects us in ways that most of us are unaware.
We have done without it before, we can and will do without it again.
sorry guys i think i got a little off topic earlier. I believe our future is going to be dependant on very different technologies than we have allowed to have, for instance, the car that runs on water (I kid you not) it separates the H from the O2 and hey presto hydrogen power with the only by-product being water vapour, I think what i`m trying to say is that there are some incredible technologies out there, ready and waiting and hopefully they will release them before they`ve clawed the last penny for the old ones like oil. See I`m an optomist really.
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.
I know someone that is working on the H20 side of life at the moment, the problem for me is that it still isn't something that is totally available to everyone at the moment, let alone something that your average mechanic would want to be dealing with.
Distribution and availability of resources make things like this very very dangerous when in developement, different seals is just one part of it, but they can make something very safe or lethal.
When you seperate hydrogen from 2 parts oxygen you do not get water as a by product you get oxygen, what happens to it and how do you replace the hydrogen from the system (as a gobal entity) at the end. We live in a very fine balance and messing with it can and has caused some serious issues.
thanks for the clarification leon1, learning all the time. I think my main issue is with the holding back of helpful technologies by huge companies with vested interests. These technologies could be helping the planet and the human condition right now, but this is what happens when profits are the way that progress is measured.
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.
walking and cycleing that simple, most journeys can be covered by either, i cycle 14 miles a day getting to work and back (and im not all that fit, trust me).
we need to wave goodbye to the car for good, let the lorrys, buses, goods tankers and freight aircraft have whats left,
we need to stall the end of the oil as much as poss, to buy the time for the technologies talked about to come into play,
wave goodbye to the foreign holidays by plane too, whats wrong with blighty,
wave goodbye to oil fired powerstation, use coal, atomic, whatever but not oil.
I dont think wars will be fought over the last lots of oil (have you any idea how much oil that uses lol)
we may face hardships or even a great depression, but bushcraft arms us for that, self reliance.
get your home fuel self sufficient and your family food self sufficient and not much can effect you, nations can fight long wars without drafting the nations for soldiers to fight them, in that scenario refuse, no soldiers no fighting, simple.
these so called elite are flesh and blood, and on there own can do no more harm than you and i.
and most of all wave goodbye to money, that apart from population increase is the crux of most of the worlds problems, the amount of tatt that gets sold to the easily led masses each year is scandalous, open an argos, littlewoods, betterware, kleeneze catalogue and count the number of things that are actually essential, count the number of things that are really well made and will last you a lifetime, you will still have fingers and toes left after counting.
its all tatt, made and thrust on us, i doubt than anyone of us has ever gone into a shop demanding that they start selling a five in one bottle openers made from weak metal and will easily break,
Instead take that money buy something that will last a lifetime and never need replacing,
get some wood and build a wormery, free garbage disposal, bait and compost for live,
buy one good knife and keep it sharp, a knife for life,
indoor clothes hangers for drying clothes, frame type, (also can be built from wood)
free dry clothes for life no machinary or money reqiured
the list could go on forever
we all make our own beds (possibly out of wood)
we need to wave goodbye to the car for good, let the lorrys, buses, goods tankers and freight aircraft have whats left,
we need to stall the end of the oil as much as poss, to buy the time for the technologies talked about to come into play,
wave goodbye to the foreign holidays by plane too, whats wrong with blighty,
wave goodbye to oil fired powerstation, use coal, atomic, whatever but not oil.
I dont think wars will be fought over the last lots of oil (have you any idea how much oil that uses lol)
we may face hardships or even a great depression, but bushcraft arms us for that, self reliance.
get your home fuel self sufficient and your family food self sufficient and not much can effect you, nations can fight long wars without drafting the nations for soldiers to fight them, in that scenario refuse, no soldiers no fighting, simple.
these so called elite are flesh and blood, and on there own can do no more harm than you and i.
and most of all wave goodbye to money, that apart from population increase is the crux of most of the worlds problems, the amount of tatt that gets sold to the easily led masses each year is scandalous, open an argos, littlewoods, betterware, kleeneze catalogue and count the number of things that are actually essential, count the number of things that are really well made and will last you a lifetime, you will still have fingers and toes left after counting.
its all tatt, made and thrust on us, i doubt than anyone of us has ever gone into a shop demanding that they start selling a five in one bottle openers made from weak metal and will easily break,
Instead take that money buy something that will last a lifetime and never need replacing,
get some wood and build a wormery, free garbage disposal, bait and compost for live,
buy one good knife and keep it sharp, a knife for life,
indoor clothes hangers for drying clothes, frame type, (also can be built from wood)
free dry clothes for life no machinary or money reqiured
the list could go on forever
we all make our own beds (possibly out of wood)
Yeah, I've seen that. Very funny. It is, of course, thermodynamically impossible - it takes more energy to split H20 into H2 and O2 than you get from recombining them.
Still, I bet he made some money from it.
There was a scheme were the excess power produced at night by Quebec's hydro damns was used to produce hydrogen. Then, in a rather less ecologically clever move, it was shipped via tanker to Germany where they were piloting a scheme for hydrogen power buses. Eventually the transport issue was too much and it was shelved.
Yeah, transport's a real problem with hydrogen - it's very bulky for the energy contained, unless you liquefy it (which is hard to do and requires yet more energy) or compress it to ridiculous pressures, and it has this great ability to diffuse through up to 6" of steel, making it brittle in the process. I believe someone's looking at fancy carbon laminate materials, but it's still a dicey proposition - 5000 psi or -253 deg C are not conditions I'd want to stand anywhere near, even completely disregarding the explosive potential of the hydrogen itself..
