The last true hermit

[British Red]

Is it just me or is that why we all go out there?

You would be amazed the number of people who believe human beings must be "social animals" or those who think cities are a great idea and that packing people in tighter and tighter is far better than people living spread out, more independent and distinct lives

 

[FoxyRick]

That's effectively what we are all taught though, isn't it?

Yet it's known that getting out into the countryside and away from lots of people is a very effective treatment for mental illness in general. A shame it's just used to get us back to being 'productive members of society' again.

 

[Laurentius]

Is it just me or is that why we all go out there?

It is for me. Thing is we live in a crowded world and are heavily interdependent, he might have thought he was free, but he wasn't in reality as he was depending on an already existing civilisation to sustain him, he was deluding himself that he was living the ideal because he was taking from other people.

 

[British Red]

Thing is we live in a crowded world and are heavily interdependent,.

People are not forced to be interdependent, they choose to be. No-one was ever truly "self sufficient", but there are degrees of dependence. I spent today cutting 2016's winter fuel. I could have worked to make money in the hope that the Russian gas pipes will still be open. But I chose to spend it with three neighbours cutting up problem trees for a fourth neighbour.

Oh - we are (or were) a programme manager and a pathologist and a recruitment consultant. We are perfectly capable of living in cities and making good money. We choose not to.

 

[santaman2000]

People are not forced to be interdependent, they choose to be. No-one was ever truly "self sufficient", but there are degrees of dependence. I spent today cutting 2016's winter fuel. I could have worked to make money in the hope that the Russian gas pipes will still be open. But I chose to spend it with three neighbours cutting up problem trees for a fourth neighbour.

Oh - we are (or were) a programme manager and a pathologist and a recruitment consultant. We are perfectly capable of living in cities and making good money. We choose not to.

I've heard the following as a definition of an American success story:

A boy raised in the country, who studies hard enough towards his education, so that he can get a good job in the city, so he can work hard enough to be able to retire back in the country.

 

[Laurentius]

No we are interdependent whether we will it or not. If it were not for modern medicine I would never have survived my first year on the planet. There is no part of the UK that has not been shaped by human agency, and what we do has it's effects beyond us, butterfly effect and all that. Even if I were to walk out of my home naked tonight whatever I could forage would be there because of this complex society that has made our world over a few millenia. We have far less choice than we imagine, we are born into a particular place and time, in a country that has a history and laws, with parents and relations, schools, shops, factories, roads and all the rest of it.

 

[British Red]

The parable of the banker and the fisherman

An American investment banker was taking a much-needed vacation in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. The boat had several large, fresh fish in it.​

The investment banker was impressed by the quality of the fish and asked the Mexican how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.” The banker then asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more fish?​

The Mexican fisherman replied he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs.​

The American then asked “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”​

The Mexican fisherman replied, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos: I have a full and busy life, senor.”​

The investment banker scoffed, “I am an Ivy League MBA, and I could help you. You could spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat, and with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats until eventually you would have a whole fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to the middleman you could sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You could control the product, processing and distribution.”​

Then he added, “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City where you would run your growing enterprise.”​

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But senor, how long will this all take?”​

To which the American replied, “15-20 years.”​

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.​

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You could make millions.”​

“Millions, senor? Then what?”​

To which the investment banker replied, “Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
​

 

[santaman2000]

I've also heard Columbus' voyage described as that definition: He left not knowing where he was going. when he got there, he didn't know where he was. He returned home not knowing where he had been. He made a fortune from the endeavor and did it all on borrowed money.

 

[British Red]

No we are interdependent whether we will it or not. If it were not for modern medicine I would never have survived my first year on the planet. There is no part of the UK that has not been shaped by human agency, and what we do has it's effects beyond us, butterfly effect and all that. Even if I were to walk out of my home naked tonight whatever I could forage would be there because of this complex society that has made our world over a few millenia. We have far less choice than we imagine, we are born into a particular place and time, in a country that has a history and laws, with parents and relations, schools, shops, factories, roads and all the rest of it.

If you believe you have no choices in life, then I agree you have no choices in life.

 

[santaman2000]

The parable of the banker and the fisherman

Exactly so!

 

[Laurentius]

If you believe you have no choices in life, then I agree you have no choices in life.

I did not say we have *no* choices, I said that our choices are limited by circumstance. We cannot live the life of a 19th Century American Mountain Man in the UK, no matter how much we might choose to do so, we are in the wrong place and the wrong time.

 

[santaman2000]

I did not say we have *no* choices, I said that our choices are limited by circumstance. We cannot live the life of a 19th Century American Mountain Man in the UK, no matter how much we might choose to do so, we are in the wrong place and the wrong time.

Largely true. But as Dick Proeneke has been mentioned, it must be pointed out that he was neither born nor raised in Alaska.

 

[Laurentius]

And if I was going to try it out in Alaska, who is going to say I would get a visa, or I would not get deported for being an illegal?

 

[santaman2000]

And if I was going to try it out in Alaska, who is going to say I would get a visa, or I would not get deported for being an illegal?

Yes. Some choices are harder than others. That's not in dispute (a visa probably wouldn't be enough to actually move to Alaska; you'd need a resident alien ID, also known as a "green card") But it is an option none-the-less.

And as Brit, I suspect you could follow the example in BR's parable to some extent and retire to the British VI without even a visa. Or perhaps a Croft somewhere in the UK?

 

[British Red]

And if I was going to try it out in Alaska, who is going to say I would get a visa, or I would not get deported for being an illegal?

Have you tried?

If not, perhaps a more pertinent question is "who is to say you would NOT get a visa".

Life was neither safe nor secure for the early pioneers, nor modern day homesteaders. If you want safe, secure and routine, then yes, the city is a good bet.

 

[JonathanD]

There are plenty of high paid jobs both at home and abroad where you can virtually live in the wild studying it.

 

[Swallow]

There are plenty of high paid jobs both at home and abroad where you can virtually live in the wild studying it.

Hmmmm. Qualifications needed? (genuine query JD).

 

[JonathanD]

Hmmmm. Qualifications needed? (genuine query JD).

For the best paid ones, yes. But you can do those whilst learning on the job and get the best of both worlds as experience really counts too. Nowadays you can get a degree in Zoology and its more specialist areas via internet and distance learning. More and more unis are offering those packages now.

 

[rik_uk3]

Back on the subject of true hermits is everyone filled with awe and respect for the exploits of Dick Proenneke?

He was by no means a hermit.

 

[shaggystu]

Really interesting article, thanks for sharing.

Stuart.