Respect...

[stovie]

Interesting...the litter point is a "no brainer", and I should hope that to all on here, leave no trace is sacrosanct...
When it comes to noise, not so delineated...On my own, or with a choice friend or two, peace and tranquility prevail, and become as sacred as the above no-brainer, but with a score of scouts in tow, probably not so imperative...that said, they tend to become quieter the longer they camp...that combination of fresh air and physical and mental exercise gives a meditative focus to the unruliest of minds...I always know we've had a good camp, when by the end of the weekend I can lean against a tree surrounded by kids, and not one of them speaks my name...

i feel sorry for children who do not appreciate (or cannot cope with) their own thoughts, and find the whisper of nature, threatening...

 

[R3XXY]

Like many others have already said, litter is a massive annoyance for me, people who drop any litter anywhere are just ignorant peasants with no class or decorum and not a shred of intelligence. There is absolutely no excuse for it, it's disgusting

The amount of families who drop litter around my usual spot beggars belief !

 

[verloc]

I think that although their are many out there that follow the ethics of Leave no Trace, the common popularity of bushcraft and the mass media appeal have drawn in many who see it as a cheap weekend where no one monitors their actions. The Neds will always be there but with groups like this one hopefully the education will expand and the knowledge and respect that go with it will become the common denominator.

Well said.

 

[Bluefrog]

I've had very similar cases with my friends in the past, especially when i was in my teens. They key is education, i've taught them why its bad and how to look after the place. NOw we all leave as little impact as possible.

Ste

 

[Balanophage]

i feel sorry for children who do not appreciate (or cannot cope with) their own thoughts, and find the whisper of nature, threatening...

I know so many people who can't handle quiet anywhere. If they're alone at home, the radio or telly goes on for the background noise. I wonder if it's something to do with so many people adapting to being jammed into small places - pokey houses, cramped estates, open-plan offices - that they can't cope without it.

 

[Soundmixer]

I work in a university and the students here just cannot keep quiet. The racket when they finish a class is awesome!
They also can't leave their phones alone. As soon as they come out of a class they huddle in a group and all talk to someone out with the group on their mobiles.
Have we seriously come to a point where we have to talk all the time? I have no problem spending a lot of time on my own, at work or out and about. I love the silence, the bird song and the noises that make woodland and shore so pleasant. I also have no problem leaving my phone at home or in the car and not on me.
But I fear that the next generation that has grown up with instant communication is missing out. I have lost count of the people that have walked out in front of my car because they are wearing headphones and / or head down texting. Situation awareness, something us outdoorsy types really excel at, seems to not apply any more. People are not aware of danger, nature, other people during their daily lives because they are too busy telling other people in their circle what they had for lunch, ***, omg, lol!
Me, I love the quiet...

 

[shamal]

What is this life if, full of care,

We have no time to stand and stare.

No time to stand beneath the boughs

And stare as long as sheep or cows.

No time to see, when woods we pass,

Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.

No time to see, in broad daylight,

Streams full of stars, like skies at night.

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,

And watch her feet, how they can dance.

No time to wait till her mouth can

Enrich that smile her eyes began.

A poor life this if, full of care,

We have no time to stand and stare.

 

[locum76]

I know so many people who can't handle quiet anywhere. If they're alone at home, the radio or telly goes on for the background noise. I wonder if it's something to do with so many people adapting to being jammed into small places - pokey houses, cramped estates, open-plan offices - that they can't cope without it.

Background noise can be very calming.

 

[Zingmo]

In case anyone hasn't spotted this on SOTP here's an example of extreme litter from Serbia. If you are in a rush, just check out what they find at 3mins 30secs in.

Z

 

[Loenja]

i am on a nature awarenss/bushcraft course atm. i am in the second year, and we camped with the first year last weeek and the noise they make is unbelievable, it just shows how much we have learnt

 

[789987]

my god you people can moan!

litter - agree. take it out.

fire - i'll have one. i'll try and place it so it doesnt leave a scar but if it does the only damage is the visual asthetics of the location which will probably dissapear within a fortnight

minimising effort/ maximising efficiency - lol... who cares if your daft mate takes six trips instead of one? its a chance to mock their stupidity!

noise - if they people you went camping with are too noisy... why are you camping with them? or why dont you tell em to keep the noise down? the sounds of nature are still there during the breaks in conversation. or when they fall asleep.


seems very elitist to have this set of secret rules and approved behaviours and scorn others who dont follow suit. still is the standard practice of internet cliques.

 

[sandbender]

In case anyone hasn't spotted this on SOTP here's an example of extreme litter from Serbia. If you are in a rush, just check out what they find at 3mins 30secs in.

Z

That is really bad! Serbia isn't alone, although our rivers are a bit cleaner there is no shortage of litter and debris to be found in the wilder parts of Hungary and Transylvania.

 

[789987]

they should site a recycling factory at that point in the river!

 

[mrcharly]

There was a lot of debri in the trees - I bet there had been a flood. The rubbish seemed to be of one type, so I'd bet that some recycling and rubbish bins got swept into the river.

I used to live on a boat on a river, downstream of a small city. The rubbish chucked in the river would collect around out pontoon. Always looked a dreadful mess, and I'd be looked at as the 'dirty traveller/gypsy'. It was a relief when I changed moorings to one upstream of the city.

 

[Husky]

It definitely looks like the effects of a flood but it is not a freak occurrence. I haven't been much in Serbia but this is pretty much the norm in the balkans. It's a stunning landscape from a distance but up close it is just like this. A deep ravine seems to be the proper place for a wrecked car and the rural roads are lined with kitchen stoves and freezers. Litter is everywere.
In Kosovo they are noticably more creative and a car is not pushed in a ravine but rather turned on its side to create 4 meters of fence.

 

[locum76]

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

[video=youtube;z0XAI-PFQcA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA[/video]

 

[Xunil]

Thanks for all the input people - my initial rant was (obviously I thought) based on the fact that the individuals in question had already demonstrated that they knew better.

It's been interesting to read through some of the comments to see the variations on the theme experienced by others.

my god you people can moan!

...

seems very elitist to have this set of secret rules and approved behaviours and scorn others who dont follow suit. still is the standard practice of internet cliques.

I'm guessing you are spoiling for a tart retort to kick something off ?

If you re-read my initial post you will find the answers to most of your questions and, for the record, I've never really been a fan of the

mock their stupidity

approach. Tends not to promote lasting friendship, or so I imagine.

Discussion with like-minded people about subjects we're passionate about is only moaning to those who aren't. If it doesn't interest you, you reserve the right to both refrain from comment and to offer a little of the title of this thread to those who do want to discuss it.

Other than keeping in touch virtually with a few members on here to swap information, or through online purchases, nobody has asked to "be in my gang" and I've not asked to be in theirs. On that basis, I am very curious about this

clique

you mention.

 

[John Fenna]

I'm guessing you are spoiling for a tart retort to kick something off ?

.

I'm guessing you are guessing right!
This gentlemans posts often seem to come across as inflamatory - the cheeky beggar even doubted my word...luckily I had some photo evidence to prove that I was not indulging in porkies.
I think that by reading this kind of thread, showing those in need of a little gentle education how others apreciate the wilds and how Nedish behaviour can upset those who realy care, either educates (and behaviour improves) or irritates (and the crass get upset that they are being "got at") as well as showing those who care that they are not lone voices in the wilderness, crying to the empty air that the wilds are being killed by those who claim to love it.
Not that I am always guilt free and have been known to get a little unthinkingly irritating at times when my behaviour has clashed with the aims, wants and needs of others around me... sory guys!

 

[789987]

Thanks for all the input people - my initial rant was (obviously I thought) based on the fact that the individuals in question had already demonstrated that they knew better.

It's been interesting to read through some of the comments to see the variations on the theme experienced by others.



I'm guessing you are spoiling for a tart retort to kick something off ?

If you re-read my initial post you will find the answers to most of your questions and, for the record, I've never really been a fan of the approach. Tends not to promote lasting friendship, or so I imagine.

Discussion with like-minded people about subjects we're passionate about is only moaning to those who aren't. If it doesn't interest you, you reserve the right to both refrain from comment and to offer a little of the title of this thread to those who do want to discuss it.

Other than keeping in touch virtually with a few members on here to swap information, or through online purchases, nobody has asked to "be in my gang" and I've not asked to be in theirs. On that basis, I am very curious about this you mention.

my response was based on everybodies posts - not just yours, maybe i laid it on a bit thick. but i stand by what i said in the bit you edited out

again meant in a light hearted manner but as has been pointed out by a helpful moderator i need to wind my neck in

so yeah.

bottom line you go out to enjoy yourself. you live and learn and adapt guest lists accordingly.

 

[RonW]

my response was based on everybodies posts - not just yours, maybe i laid it on a bit thick. but i stand by what i said in the bit you edited out

again meant in a light hearted manner but as has been pointed out by a helpful moderator i need to wind my neck in

so yeah.

bottom line you go out to enjoy yourself. you live and learn and adapt guest lists accordingly.

That's one of the main problems with a forum; you can not hear the tone of voice in which replies are written down or see the actual person behind it, so a very important part of communication (non-verbal) gets lost.
But in a way you are right; I do want my "guests" to be more like me; quiet, enjoying the surroundings or, if necessary, have a good conversation. In that way, yes, I am a bit elitist maybe. Problem I have is finding similar people. Seems hard in today's society, so I have to settle for less or be alone.