Ray Mears Axe sharpness?

[MikaelMazz]

I was just watching Ray Mears in the Arctic on the internet and he said something that kind of bugged me. He said "And if it's(axe) not sharp enough to do that(slicing a peice of paper) then its realy not much use."
Does he really beleive that? I dont have nothing against having an axe that sharp but an axe that cant slice paper can still be plety sharp and good for just about every thing but slicing paper.
Dont get me wrong I think he is a smart guy and love his shows but that statment really is not true. I was suprised to here him say that, and he is not the only one I heard saying that.
Just something that was bugging me.

Mikael

 

[durulz]

I think you're taking it too seriously.
I dare say it was just a disposable comment. He was just emphasising the necessity to keep tools sharp, and not to be taken literally. I wouldn't let it 'bug' you.

 

[Celt_Ginger]

It's only TV. Although I generally have my axes paper slicing sharp

 

[C_Claycomb]

Dunno how it was that Ray intended the comment to be understood, but I keep my axe somewhere around that level of sharpness and find that it is much easier to use as a result. I don't do a lot of splitting of large seasoned logs, nor do I plan to use my axe for chopping ice, but I do use it for a lot of cutting, either green wood, or precise chops and stop cuts on seasoned stuff. I have worked along side a guy with a larger, heavier axe that was dull and he had to put more effort into the work, for less return, than I did.

Lots of people do just fine with buying cheap stainless steel knives that don't take or hold much of an edge and I think that the axe comment could be transfered just as well to knives. A lot of knives won't slice paper either. To me that means that they aren't up to much, but to most people they would be just fine and capable of plenty of work.

 

[HillBill]

The truth of the matter really is, it depends on both the axe and the job. There are instances where not shaving sharp is better such as close to ground work etc where a thicker edge prevents blade chippings.

For the most though, as it is a cutting tool, then yes very sharp cuts better than not as sharp

 

[gregorach]

For Arctic survival, you want all the help you can get. You can't afford to waste energy in that environment.

 

[rawshak]

I used a blunt axe for years fairly sucessfully before I realized that it could in fact be sharpened to shaving sharpness and I've never looked back. No-one would dispute that a blunter axe is still functional, but the sharper the axe is, the easier it will work wood. In addition to this, a sharp axe will bite better and is therefore less likely to rebound and cause injury.

As a side note, in my experience, people who keep their blades (knives included), shaving sharp, tend to cut themselves less. Maybe it's because you have to teach yourself good safety practice when you know how much damage a razor edge can cause, whereas blunt tools tend to be treated with more complacency (I've done it myself).

 

[Colin.W]

I did my aprenticeship for carpentry back in the days when the tutors were allowed to tell their students off and anyone who didnt have razor sharp tools including their axe were given hell, we were told that if you're struggling with a dull edge tool there is a greater chance of cutting where a cut shouldn't be including fingers etc
And before anyone asks when I qualified as a chippy way back in the day before we had power tools and battery drills on site an axe was a very important an much used item of kit and if it wasn't sharp enough to cut twisted wedges from off cuts of 4x2 within a few seconds of being shouted the thickness I had whatever was close at hand thrown at me along with a tirrade of abuse for holding him up (ahh happy days)

 

[Mastino]

Next to all the above good comments, I think it is good practice to keep your tools effective. I sharpen my knives razor sharp not because they are blunt but to keep myself trained. A bit like the motto 'train hard, fight easy'.

 

[SMARTY]

Crikey that paper must be tough stuff if you need an axe or knife to cut it. I usually just rip it up by hand. I cant see the point of testing for sharpness on paper. Why not test it on the type of material you are going to cut. There is quite a bit of technique needed to hold the paper so that it will not fold during the "paper cutting sharp" demonstration.
If this reply seems sarcastic thats because it is intended to be. Come on folks we all know that the safest and most efficient cutting tool is a sharp one, big deal.:yikes:

 

[Celt_Ginger]

Crikey that paper must be tough stuff if you need an axe or knife to cut it. I usually just rip it up by hand. I cant see the point of testing for sharpness on paper. Why not test it on the type of material you are going to cut. There is quite a bit of technique needed to hold the paper so that it will not fold during the "paper cutting sharp" demonstration.
If this reply seems sarcastic thats because it is intended to be. Come on folks we all know that the safest and most efficient cutting tool is a sharp one, big deal.:yikes:

Ahhh, but RAY does it, so it must therefore be the Bushcraft standard.

 

[Cairodel]

Oh Yes....!!!

 

[jimford]

Ahhh, but RAY does it, so it must therefore be the Bushcraft standard.

Spot on!

I used to keep my old Swiss Army Knife razor sharp with an Arkansas stone, and basically wore it out doing so rather than using it.

Jim

 

[w00dsmoke]

Most traditional axes were never kept shaving sharp...sure they were kept sharp in the field with a stone and possibly leather, but nothing like what we have discussed here. It was just pointless. There was no need and depending on the style of axe it would lend itself to a rolled or chipped edge.

In bushcraft we expect an axe to perfom much more delicate work than many traditional uses and are kept sharper I reckon for this purpose, more like a knife but it doesn't need to be shaving sharp. If you expect a tool to one minute split hardwood billets then carve a kuksa the next...then you'll lose that shaving edge in no time at all. You'd be better off with two different axes for two differnt purposes. When I first trained in the woods at the Scottish School of forestry, we did a course in handtools and I think we may have been one of the last to be trained in axes and all they used was an axe stone/puck and emphasised the need for different styles of axes for different purposes e.g felling, limbing, clearing etc. This can equally apply to our needs.

 

[clcuckow]

Most traditional axes were never kept shaving sharp...sure they were kept sharp in the field with a stone and possibly leather, but nothing like what we have discussed here. It was just pointless. There was no need and depending on the style of axe it would lend itself to a rolled or chipped edge.

In bushcraft we expect an axe to perfom much more delicate work than many traditional uses and are kept sharper I reckon for this purpose, more like a knife but it doesn't need to be shaving sharp. If you expect a tool to one minute split hardwood billets then carve a kuksa the next...then you'll lose that shaving edge in no time at all. You'd be better off with two different axes for two differnt purposes. When I first trained in the woods at the Scottish School of forestry, we did a course in handtools and I think we may have been one of the last to be trained in axes and all they used was an axe stone/puck and emphasised the need for different styles of axes for different purposes e.g felling, limbing, clearing etc. This can equally apply to our needs.

I think you are spot on there. I remember a different Ray show but still in the northern forests where he referred to surviving with only an axe using it for everything from collecting firewood, carving fuzz sticks, cordage, shelter building e.g. using for job you would normally use a knife and I am sure you will all agree you really need your cutting tool to be as sharp as possible when carving fuzz sticks.

 

[sam_acw]

I did my aprenticeship for carpentry back in the days when the tutors were allowed to tell their students off and anyone who didnt have razor sharp tools including their axe were given hell, we were told that if you're struggling with a dull edge tool there is a greater chance of cutting where a cut shouldn't be including fingers etc
And before anyone asks when I qualified as a chippy way back in the day before we had power tools and battery drills on site an axe was a very important an much used item of kit and if it wasn't sharp enough to cut twisted wedges from off cuts of 4x2 within a few seconds of being shouted the thickness I had whatever was close at hand thrown at me along with a tirrade of abuse for holding him up (ahh happy days)

Sounds great! It'd be cool if you could elaborate a bit on this (please)

 

[mark wood]

On my last trip to Alan Wood's (he's about 45 minutes away from Newcastle) he had one of Ray's axes in for sharpening!

 

[Chinkapin]

When I was a boy, I lived in Michigan, where I had an older gentleman take me under his wing and teach me some things about the north woods. He had worked in the timber cutting business all of his life.

Contrary to what is believed about lumber jacks, by most folks, he did not use a single bit axe. But, rather he had a double bit axe that he kept one side razor sharp. You could shave with it. The other side was just kept moderately sharp.

Any time he needed to cut near the ground he used the moderately sharp side, the rest of the time, he used the other side.

Although in his sixties at the time, he could make larger chips, and fell a tree quicker than anyone I ever saw before or since. For what its worth, I never saw him use a single bit axe.

 

[stephendedwards]

On my last trip to Alan Wood's (he's about 45 minutes away from Newcastle) he had one of Ray's axes in for sharpening!

what?? The man doesn't sharpen his own - oh the shame, the perishable shame.

What is of more interest to me is the tools of the people that he meets - no disrespect but not the TV personality with virtually unlimited budget, see above quote, but the 90 year old trapper, or the Amazonian Indian or the chap making the canoe. These are the people to note because they live it day in and day out. They are not flying in for a week, make a film and flying out again. There is that famous old Canadian film of a chap making a canoe - check out his tools. Let's try to keep it a little bit real and differentiate between the man on tele, our weekend aspirations and those that actually live and work with these tools.

Stephen

 

[SMARTY]

I totally agree with you there. GB SF axe's seem to be the "fasion" axe. I'm not suggesting they are no good (25 year guarentee and all that). But there are good other makes and brands out there. I use the snow & Neally camp axe (lifetime guarentee). Its slightly longer in the haft, so I can chop stood up and not on my knees, as taught by some outfits. Its design allows it to be used to wittle, split, carve, feather etc. Hand forged easily maintained and cheaper too. Its easy to keep sharp, with a file or stone, but unfortunalely it doesn't cut paper!!!

Its just my opinion, and as we all know opions are like ar** ho**es we all have different ones!!!