Newbie Rucksack Questions

[gregs656]

I guess it depends how much you want to spend as well. I have a big old beast of an issue Bergen and I have used it quite a bit, it was £15 off the site mentioned previously and it's fine. I have had it on my back for several hours with no real issues. It's massive, and you probably don't need anything quite so cavernous.

I also have a Dutch issue Low Alpine Sting I bought as surplus, it was about £50 and it's brilliant. A good amount of room, strong, adjustable, comfortable. I did consider quite a few options but none of them screamed at me as such a complete bargain as the sting - I am very happy with my choice.

 

[fletch]

You are very wrong on this.The belt is a stabilising belt not a waist belt.A waist belt is designed to transfer the weight to the hips . The plce pack is designed to sit on your webbing and through this ,transfer the weight to the hips and the shoulders via the webbing yoke as well as the shoulder straps.
The stabilising belt as fitted to plce packs is not padded enough nor thick enough to transfer any weight comfortably.

you are of course entitled to a different opinion than mine but there is no need to be quite so confrontational now is there?

i think that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

5 posts and i'm out of here

 

[big_swede]

you are of course entitled to a different opinion than mine but there is no need to be quite so confrontational now is there?

i think that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

5 posts and i'm out of here

There there, it was very confrontational, but no need to threaten with resigning yet. You most certainly have valueable experiences to contribute with.

 

[Barn Owl]

Darren,if I saw an old Jaguar on the bay I'd probably bid for it mate.
No,I'd def' bid for it...

Keep yours and try to get your hands on some of the others mentioned to try out first,you know it's the only way.

 

[TinkyPete]

All I can really add to this one is, make sure you try before you buy and if you can try to test it with a simialr weight that you will carry most decent outdoor shops will let you fill it up with kit so you can see what the size/back system is like.

Everyone of us is different on how we wear, carry and use our packs/bergens and what and how we pack them, it is very much a personal thing on what you want out of a bag.

There are loads of ways that each of us put our kit so what works for one may not work for you. All I can say is that there is a basic way to pack them though, try to get your heavy kit close to your back and as high as possible but don't forget you still want your most used kit to hand the quickest, you don't want your waterproofs to be at the bottom with no way of easy getting them when in the UK.

 

[Paul_B]

All I can say is Big_Swede made a very good point about people on this site and their big green sacks. Depends what you are using it for. Carrying loads of heavy gear short distances from the car, landy or van to a wood camp / moot spot then very well. If you have to carry all your gear in one bag over many miles while backpacking then I do think you have to account for why you are carrying up to 3kg in a sack when there are sacks available that work just as well in the real world weighing 1kg or even less depending on your load weight.

IMHO the big green sack does not offer any benefit in what is perceived as its biggest selling point and that is durabilty. I have used sacks and most definitely abused them for many years and have not so far damaged a sack. I have used some UL sacks weighing 600g and found them perfectly adequate for backpacking use. I scramble, climb and throw them around. I trip, stumble and fall on them. Sit on them and even been known to throw them down on the ground in a strop.

My point is the bergen type of sacks are an old technology now. They are a little bit from the time when it was thought thicker fabric, more webbing and more stitching makes it a real tough sack. There are better options out there but they might not be the big green or black SF sack/bergen. You are not a bulk, contract buying military body so why get the type of stuff they get limited with. Afterall it is not uncommon that some units allow them to buy their own, better stuff.

I personally think the newer products inspired by the USA's UL backacking community using dyneema and some amazingly tough but light fabrics is a better choice for backpacking. The Crux is known as a bombproof sack. If you rip one of them you are a cretin. That make of sack is tougher than the bergens. It is the simplicity of it that makes it particularly tough. A single compartment body of the sack made out of as few pieces of fabric as possible, with good stitching, webbing and buckles, etc. They all contribute.

Now as an outside bet try Aiguille Alpine. Based in Stavely in the Lakes they make their own sacks above their shop. They offer a degree of customisation all in their standard price. The sacks are cheaper than main stream brands for what they are and there is no fuss with them making them reasonably light. If you read through some threads on here you will find out that people tend to keep this make and use them for decades. They are known as being well made and very durable. I like the fact that I have got aa back length made to fit my back not the "standard" back size whatever that is. I think it is also another good sign that MRT members use them as do climbing guides and I believe some military units (if he's not spinning me a yarn). You just have to get over the big green sack herd mentality.

Sorry if I've been controversial with my big green sack comments but its just my honestly held opinion that those sacks are attrocious for backpacking use when compared with what is out there. There are some reaally good sacks that people are ruling out for what appears to me to just be a question of colour.

 

[darrenleroy]

Darren,if I saw an old Jaguar on the bay I'd probably bid for it mate.
No,I'd def' bid for it...

Keep yours and try to get your hands on some of the others mentioned to try out first,you know it's the only way.

I'm proud of my purchase, it's been with me around the world, but the zips are starting to go, the shoulder straps aren't the more comfortable S-shape, they're not that padded and the back is too short for the waist strap to sit on my waist. (I did buy it when I was a teenager!).

God, I'm loving all this information. It's what men are designed to do; talk kit.

 

[Paul_B]

My advice is to take your gear to shops and try to load up a few sacks with your gear (if the shops allow it) or at least items to the same sort of weight. Try sacks on for one that is comfortable.

Whatever you do choose one piece of advice I will offer is to work out the best way to pack your sack and always pack it that waay. IME if everything has its place and everything in its place it is better for an efficient camp. It also helps to ensure you don't leave anything behind too and to ensure that you have what you need gto hand when you need it. Organisation is key.

 

[Paul_B]

I remember people still using Karrimor gold guarantee sacks from that length of time ago. Every time a zip or stitch goes thhey send them back to Karrimor with a copy of the guraantee (on even has the original receipt from over 25 years ago). One guy keeps hoping they will write it off anf give him a voucher for a brand new one but they never do. Instead they keep repairing the zips, stitching, buckles and webbing. Then sending it back cleaned and praactically as good as new all for free! On top of that it is a 75litre adjustable back rucksack capable of carrying a heavy load comfortably all day yet only weighs about 1-1.5kg!!!!

 

[Shewie]

Now as an outside bet try Aiguille Alpine. Based in Stavely in the Lakes they make their own sacks above their shop. They offer a degree of customisation all in their standard price. The sacks are cheaper than main stream brands for what they are and there is no fuss with them making them reasonably light. If you read through some threads on here you will find out that people tend to keep this make and use them for decades. They are known as being well made and very durable. I like the fact that I have got aa back length made to fit my back not the "standard" back size whatever that is. I think it is also another good sign that MRT members use them as do climbing guides and I believe some military units (if he's not spinning me a yarn).

They do them in Olive too

 

[The Cumbrian]

My POD Black Ice weighs about a third as much as my Berghaus Vulcan, but has survived over fifteen years of arguably the toughest test of a pack ( apart from combat ), British winter climbing. Even that pack is not considered lightweight these days.

How many people on here have worn a good quality pack out? A friend of mine dropped his pack off the A Chir Ridge on Arran, and the only casualty was the pots of yoghurt that he was carrying.

Cheers, Michael.

 

[big_swede]

To be honest I don't really understand this "try it out" thing. I have never tried a modern pack that wasn't comfortable when properly adjusted.

The packs I find the most comfortable to wear have always been fixed length packs. And light ones. With a light load.

 

[preacherman]

To be honest I don't really understand this "try it out" thing. I have never tried a modern pack that wasn't comfortable when properly adjusted.

I dont want to argue with a "big Swede" but I went looking at a new pack last summer that I had only seen on line that had great reviews and did not cost the earth. I tried it out with 12 kg, the max it was designed to carry comfortably but found the external frame digging into my back a little that I knew would bother me over a distance. When I was in the shop I tried out a Crux Ak47 in Gunmetal. I loaded it up with all of the weight bags in the shop 20kg worth and tried it on. It felt really comfortable even though they are only really designed for half this weight. I justified the high price by knowing that my body would thank me in the years to come. They do come in different back lengths so its worth trying it on to get the right one.


The Ak 35 is a fixed back and will be my next purchase if I can swing it. I have never put on a pack that immediatly felt bang on. This one did.

Andrew

 

[big_swede]

I dont want to argue with a "big Swede" but I went looking at a new pack last summer that I had only seen on line that had great reviews and did not cost the earth. I tried it out with 12 kg, the max it was designed to carry comfortably but found the external frame digging into my back a little that I knew would bother me over a distance. When I was in the shop I tried out a Crux Ak47 in Gunmetal. I loaded it up with all of the weight bags in the shop 20kg worth and tried it on. It felt really comfortable even though they are only really designed for half this weight. I justified the high price by knowing that my body would thank me in the years to come. They do come in different back lengths so its worth trying it on to get the right one.


The Ak 35 is a fixed back and will be my next purchase if I can swing it. I have never put on a pack that immediatly felt bang on. This one did.

Andrew

I mean fixed back as in fixed sizes, not adjustable.

 

[preacherman]

I mean fixed back as in fixed sizes, not adjustable.

Sorry if I misquoted you, I presumed you meant that even though its a fixed back that it should still be adjusted correctly, shoulder straps etc, to get the best possible weight transfer for the activity, up or down hill etc.

The Crux AK 47 is a fixed back, not adjustable but in a few sizes. I have a long back and if I had bought online I would have had the wrong pack. Glad I bought it though

 

[sapper1]

you are of course entitled to a different opinion than mine but there is no need to be quite so confrontational now is there?

i think that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

5 posts and i'm out of here

I apologise if I've hurt your feelings.
I thought I was being informational rather than confrontational.

 

[johnboy]

.

Sorry if I've been controversial with my big green sack comments but its just my honestly held opinion that those sacks are attrocious for backpacking use when compared with what is out there. There are some reaally good sacks that people are ruling out for what appears to me to just be a question of colour.

Any rucksack regardless of: colour, provenence and construction or material will be 'attrocious' to carry reasonably loaded any real distance if:

1. It has a fixed back length that doesn't fit you correctly.
2. It has an adjustable back length that's incorrectly fitted.
3. It's frameless and badly packed.


I have a bit of experience in the outdoors and I have about 20 rucksacs of various types ( if I include the hire ones) out in the shed. I can honestly say
my Vulcan with it's cyclops 2 back system and which happens to be green I find the most comfortable. I've tried others from Aarn Designs, Macpac, Yakpacks, TNF, Karrimor etc all were ok but just not as comfy.

Ultimately folk will buy what they want and use it how they will.


On the 'bay' currently a Green Karrimor Jaguar

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rucksac-Karrimor-Jaguar-S65-KS-100e-SA-i_W0QQitemZ150432493298QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_SportingGoods_BackpacksRucksacks_Bags_EH?hash=item230679aef2

 

[Diamond Dave]

This has been one of the best threads on rucksacks we have had for a long time....very informative. thanks to everyone who has contributed.....

 

[darrenleroy]

I also use a Karrimor jaguar but its not as new as yours. Its works fine for me.
If it aint broke......

Bushwacker Bob: After all the advice I've had on this forum I've come to the conclusion that I'm worrying WAY TOO MUCH about my pack. You've kind of led me to come full circle and look at my old Karrimor Jaguar in a new light. I'm just getting into the great outdoors and I think I got a little carried away and have realised there is a lot I can do to make my old bag more comfortable. (admittedly, the Karrimor SF Sabre 75 does make me salivate when I see a picture of it all strapped and compressed into a sleek, green tube.)

I've come home tonight and decided to weigh my basic kit and sack and reload it according to advice on this site and to pay closer attention to how I adjust the straps to improve comfort. It's never going to match the latest designs for padding and fit but it will do for now.

Karrimor Jaguar 65 – 4.4lbs

Stupid Blow Up Mattress – 3.8lbs

Two Man Tent from Black's – 9.8lbs

Army issue Goretex Bivvy – 1.8lbs

Sleeping Bag – 1.8lbs

My conclusion is that while the Jaguar doesn't weigh as little as say a Crux AK57 (2.8lbs) or a Granite Gear Vapour Trail (2.3lbs) the sack isn't too heavy and it has easily enough capacity to go off into the woods or to hike a few miles.

I can lighten the load massively by dumping the blow up mattress I so rashly bought in a bid to save some money (freezing on my trip last week to Snowdonia) and getting something lightweight like the Therm-a-Rest Neo Air (just .8lbs). I should have bitten the bullet and just bought it.

The tent is also ridiculously heavy for my needs. Although I can't afford it I'd love to give the Hilleberg Akto (3.3lbs) a go one day, or just continue with sleeping in my bivvy during the warmer months.

From chucking out the big tent and blow up mattress and replacing them with the Therm-a-Rest sleep mat and the Akto tent I'd be saving myself 9.5lbs.

Ultimately, if I ever do a long hike like the Pennine Way I think I'd buy a lightweight bag like the Vapour Trail, but as I don't have loads of money and I don't want to get too caught up in all the excitement and do something I'll regret I'll do some more research and take my time before deciding if and what bag is best for me in the woods. Until then I'll re-learn to love my old Jaguar.

 

[Harley]

I have a bit of experience in the outdoors and I have about 20 rucksacs of various types ( if I include the hire ones) out in the shed. I can honestly say
my Vulcan with it's cyclops 2 back system and which happens to be green I find the most comfortable.

Crikey, that is a well qualified recommendation!

I think I've narrowed my choices to Sabre 75 or this one, time to try them on with a bit of weight thrown in by the sound of it.

Thanks again from me as well chaps (and chapettes, if any)