Living primitive?
- Thread starter Earthpeace
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Hi this is a fantastic thread Earthpeace, love those photos,keep em comming. Have always fancied this kind of lifestyle ever since watching "The Good Life" Ahh there was something special about Felicity Kendal wearing wellies 
Seriously though i really admire what you and your folks are doing as others have said it's something most of us will probably only dream of,keep us all posted.Sean.
Seriously though i really admire what you and your folks are doing as others have said it's something most of us will probably only dream of,keep us all posted.Sean.I know this may be a little of topic and not what this thread was intended for, but have you thought of having paying guests- people who want to learn and experience the life you lead? Your pictures look great and you seem to be living a life which many people can only dream of. Just an idea.
Moko
Moko
I'll second that - paying or not. Sounds like a great place to come and visit and learn.
My now Wife and I worked our way across Canada WWOOFing - Willing workers on organic farms. Felt a bit like slave labour at times, but we got room and board, and met loads of great people, and learned stuff.
Looks like a great plot to me Earthpeace.
I don't think you can be totally self sufficient in modern society, but you can come very close. As mentioned above barter can go a long way towards fulfilling the rest of your requirements. Swapping labour or your excess harvest for the goods you need.
Good stuff - I'm glad to see you are making it work.
How long has your family been doing this ?
Cheers
Rich
My now Wife and I worked our way across Canada WWOOFing - Willing workers on organic farms. Felt a bit like slave labour at times, but we got room and board, and met loads of great people, and learned stuff.
Looks like a great plot to me Earthpeace.
I don't think you can be totally self sufficient in modern society, but you can come very close. As mentioned above barter can go a long way towards fulfilling the rest of your requirements. Swapping labour or your excess harvest for the goods you need.
Good stuff - I'm glad to see you are making it work.
How long has your family been doing this ?
Cheers
Rich
bushman762 I dont know why you can not see the photos, there on the screen full size not a link, maybe its your browser settings?
Roving Rich We have a lot of french small holders and rare breed friends other here that have WWOOFers all the time, we know it very well, we often go a get togethers with smallholder, rare breeds breeders, wwoofers and lots of shepherds that come down from the Pyrenees once all the sheep are of the hills and in the building for the winter. We have had lots of WWOOFers visit our place but not work on it. We have been doing this lifestyle for 8 years now. We came to france knowing no French and knowing nothing about animals,farming ect. True city people, we just jumped in the deep end and hoped we swam.
Are first dealing we had we french farmers was Maro we spent many hours around the table drawing stick animals and things to make him understand.
He helped us to buy our first sheep, which was sigh langaue of pointing at are self, putting up 10 fingers and bleerring like a sheep.
Now 8 years down the road we are know far and wide, as the stange English that think there in the old age. We point out out no we are in the new age.
I do spinning demonstations at local traditonal fairs and re-actments, we sometimes do them with the horses.
Yes we do swopping things all the time, in fact I'd go to say, we do more swopping than we do selling. Swopping the strangest of things goats for sheep, sheep for pigs, rams for rams, sheep for car engines, a pig for a loom the list go's on.
mokoWe thought about having paying guests to learn our skills but we lack the accomadation.
bushman762 A bit of advise.
Don't go to Toulouse downwards and the south coast line, its a desert.
Poitou-charente is is good farming land if you want to grow grain, very flat but fertile.
The 24 Dordogne in Aquitaine is Ok land , nice locals and an English hotspot.
The 33 Gironde in Aquitaine is poor land, anti english but nice hard wood forests.
The 07 Ardeche in Auvergne and around that area is good thick forests (evergreen ) clear water, lots of wildlife, space, good place for hunting & gathering, not so good for farming ( too hilly).
The area Midi Pyrenees is nice open grass hills, clean air/water, a lot of not fenced places.
Its the country of the milking sheep, best cheese in the world.
The rhone Alpes has a habite of being very dry, good for goats thats about it.
Hopes this helps you on your search for your dream place.
When you find it don't be shy on offering half what they want for the place. It's standard practice for the french to double every thing. If you don't haddle the price, they will not respect you and think you have to much money and then will not help you later.
Don't put in a swimming pool if you want to go with the locals, they will class you as snobs( a blow-up pool standing above ground is ok).
Don't fall into the just for english clubs that are over here, they go from one to each other's house drinking, talking and eating and don't mix with the french and don't even try to speak to one. or you will end up will no money and no knowledge.
Good luck, you never know we may cross wires one day.
I'll sent some more photos next post if you guys & ladys want.
Roving Rich We have a lot of french small holders and rare breed friends other here that have WWOOFers all the time, we know it very well, we often go a get togethers with smallholder, rare breeds breeders, wwoofers and lots of shepherds that come down from the Pyrenees once all the sheep are of the hills and in the building for the winter. We have had lots of WWOOFers visit our place but not work on it. We have been doing this lifestyle for 8 years now. We came to france knowing no French and knowing nothing about animals,farming ect. True city people, we just jumped in the deep end and hoped we swam.
Are first dealing we had we french farmers was Maro we spent many hours around the table drawing stick animals and things to make him understand.
He helped us to buy our first sheep, which was sigh langaue of pointing at are self, putting up 10 fingers and bleerring like a sheep.
Now 8 years down the road we are know far and wide, as the stange English that think there in the old age. We point out out no we are in the new age.
I do spinning demonstations at local traditonal fairs and re-actments, we sometimes do them with the horses.
Yes we do swopping things all the time, in fact I'd go to say, we do more swopping than we do selling. Swopping the strangest of things goats for sheep, sheep for pigs, rams for rams, sheep for car engines, a pig for a loom the list go's on.
mokoWe thought about having paying guests to learn our skills but we lack the accomadation.
bushman762 A bit of advise.
Don't go to Toulouse downwards and the south coast line, its a desert.
Poitou-charente is is good farming land if you want to grow grain, very flat but fertile.
The 24 Dordogne in Aquitaine is Ok land , nice locals and an English hotspot.
The 33 Gironde in Aquitaine is poor land, anti english but nice hard wood forests.
The 07 Ardeche in Auvergne and around that area is good thick forests (evergreen ) clear water, lots of wildlife, space, good place for hunting & gathering, not so good for farming ( too hilly).
The area Midi Pyrenees is nice open grass hills, clean air/water, a lot of not fenced places.
Its the country of the milking sheep, best cheese in the world.
The rhone Alpes has a habite of being very dry, good for goats thats about it.
Hopes this helps you on your search for your dream place.
When you find it don't be shy on offering half what they want for the place. It's standard practice for the french to double every thing. If you don't haddle the price, they will not respect you and think you have to much money and then will not help you later.
Don't put in a swimming pool if you want to go with the locals, they will class you as snobs( a blow-up pool standing above ground is ok).
Don't fall into the just for english clubs that are over here, they go from one to each other's house drinking, talking and eating and don't mix with the french and don't even try to speak to one. or you will end up will no money and no knowledge.
Good luck, you never know we may cross wires one day.
I'll sent some more photos next post if you guys & ladys want.
a total hunter gather existance without metal just stone age tools? not really possible today i believe, there are just to many people on the planet especially in areas that would support such a lifestyle. but you can turn back the clock technology wise several centuries with subsistance agriculture and selling/trading any surplus for what ever you may need that is unforseen such as an injury or illness, farming is a dangerous enterprise and there may be some occurances that a little cash will be necessary and as you saaid if you don't ask for help and can "pay you way" the government will most likely leave you alone.
keep 'er goin'
dean
BTW love the pics
keep 'er goin'
dean
BTW love the pics
Hi Earthpeace. I think it is probably not possible to live a totally self-sufficient lifestyle, certainly not in Europe, there are just too many people and too much of the land is so intensely used and abused.
You and your clan have probably managed the best compromise life style. I have a brother who moved to a very small hamlet in the Perigord some years back and he also found that the local people were welcoming and prepared to help him as long as he was prepared to help them.
My congratulation to you and your family and I hope you can continue to live your chosen life for as long as you want without interference from the authorities. :You_Rock_
I know it is difficult to do, (I am french ) but keep away from the mairie, they are the eyes and ears of the french state, and it's a bit like putting a stick into a hornets nest! I think it is quite probable they will take an interest in your niece when she reaches the age when education becomes "obligatoire"
You and your clan have probably managed the best compromise life style. I have a brother who moved to a very small hamlet in the Perigord some years back and he also found that the local people were welcoming and prepared to help him as long as he was prepared to help them.
My congratulation to you and your family and I hope you can continue to live your chosen life for as long as you want without interference from the authorities. :You_Rock_
I know it is difficult to do, (I am french
) but keep away from the mairie, they are the eyes and ears of the french state, and it's a bit like putting a stick into a hornets nest! I think it is quite probable they will take an interest in your niece when she reaches the age when education becomes "obligatoire"
Of course it is possible to live a hunter-gatherer existance in Europe.
The reasons:
- There is a lot of unpredated game around. Many populations are oversized. Roe deer, boar and rabbit are examples of it.
- Shorelines are mostly open for everyone to forage.
- Few people move around in the forest, hiding is quite easy. Especially with a good guard dog.
- Almost everyone hikes on paths, by staying off them you will be pretty safe.
- You can move undetected in the margins of fields, where the game is most abundant.
- Setting nets after dark and taking them up just before dark can keep you with fish without being detected.
Legally possible: No
If you aren't bothered with legalities: Yes
Perhaps easier in Scandinavia (because noone can tell you not to walk somewhere), but the game is scarcer (because of heavy hunting) and other people can walk everywhere too (risking detection). Also, anyone can legally set nets and longlines in the sea (Norway).
I haven't tried it myself, but saying it isn't possible, just is too simple.
The reasons:
- There is a lot of unpredated game around. Many populations are oversized. Roe deer, boar and rabbit are examples of it.
- Shorelines are mostly open for everyone to forage.
- Few people move around in the forest, hiding is quite easy. Especially with a good guard dog.
- Almost everyone hikes on paths, by staying off them you will be pretty safe.
- You can move undetected in the margins of fields, where the game is most abundant.
- Setting nets after dark and taking them up just before dark can keep you with fish without being detected.
Legally possible: No
If you aren't bothered with legalities: Yes
Perhaps easier in Scandinavia (because noone can tell you not to walk somewhere), but the game is scarcer (because of heavy hunting) and other people can walk everywhere too (risking detection). Also, anyone can legally set nets and longlines in the sea (Norway).
I haven't tried it myself, but saying it isn't possible, just is too simple.
Hi Earthpeace,
Thanks for the advice (got the pics, it was my settings). We have been looking for a place for a few years, we wanted about 10 acres of approx half hard woods and open land, with a building somewhere near the centre of our land... we have found this almost impossible to find in France!!
The other big problem is that as you rightly pointed out many people are prepared to pay the big asking price and property prices have been rising faster than we have been able to save it up. I have been taken to the same properties over a number of years and have seen the asking price go from 10k (in FF) to 40k (in Euro). We didn't get over there this past two years, but we are making plans to get over this coming year for perhaps 3 or 4 weeks, to have another good hunt around!
Perhaps we might even get to meet up with you and your clan, we only need a parking space for our campervan.
Any how we enjoyed the pics keep them coming...I take it you have John Seymours book? a real gem, lots of practical help.
Best Regards
Thanks for the advice (got the pics, it was my settings). We have been looking for a place for a few years, we wanted about 10 acres of approx half hard woods and open land, with a building somewhere near the centre of our land... we have found this almost impossible to find in France!!
The other big problem is that as you rightly pointed out many people are prepared to pay the big asking price and property prices have been rising faster than we have been able to save it up. I have been taken to the same properties over a number of years and have seen the asking price go from 10k (in FF) to 40k (in Euro). We didn't get over there this past two years, but we are making plans to get over this coming year for perhaps 3 or 4 weeks, to have another good hunt around!
Perhaps we might even get to meet up with you and your clan, we only need a parking space for our campervan.
Any how we enjoyed the pics keep them coming...I take it you have John Seymours book? a real gem, lots of practical help.
Best Regards
Keep the pictures coming Earthpeace, and the info. I, like most on this forum, would like to try your lifestyle.
And it just occured to me that it is possible to live a totally primitive lifestyle. Google for the Andaman Islands. There is a tribe that completely shums any contact with the outside world, they kill anyone who attempts to land there, extreme perhaps but it is probably the only way they could survive. After the tsumami a military helicopter flew over the island to check to see if they had survived, to be met by a tribesman shooting arrows at it! They are under pressure from commercial fishing in their waters, recently they killed some poachers.
And it just occured to me that it is possible to live a totally primitive lifestyle. Google for the Andaman Islands. There is a tribe that completely shums any contact with the outside world, they kill anyone who attempts to land there, extreme perhaps but it is probably the only way they could survive. After the tsumami a military helicopter flew over the island to check to see if they had survived, to be met by a tribesman shooting arrows at it! They are under pressure from commercial fishing in their waters, recently they killed some poachers.
Not all of europe is over developed or over farmed. The further East you go, the lower the intensity of land use. The history of Eastern Europe is characterised by a lot of space without too many people in it and by modern standards that is still true.
The Polish govt. pays foresters to look after things (cross between a forester, hunter, game keeper and baliff) and by and large they can be pretty self sufficient.
The Polish govt. pays foresters to look after things (cross between a forester, hunter, game keeper and baliff) and by and large they can be pretty self sufficient.
I agree that it is probably fairly easy for a single determined person to live the "hunter gatherer" lifestyle, although to have to basically hide all the time, would that not be a rather lonely life ? But I was thinking more in the context of a group of people, men, women and children, as are hunter gatherers tribes, families or clans . In the course of trying to sustain such a life, such a group would surely attract the attention of the authorities of any countries.
I only have to look at the way the authorities and the population here in England regard the "travellers" and Gypsies to make me think that they would also look askance on people living the life of the hunter gatherers.
A coulpe of years ago, rumours started than travellers were on their way to set up camp in a field behind uor house. The police arrived, the farmer who owned the fields sent a JCB to dig trenches and block all the accesses to the field. As it turned out nothing happened. But if it was a "tribe" of hunter gatherers, what would the reaction have been?
A "self sufficient" lifestyle is a different context. It is quite possible to do this in this country. As long as your seen to behave "normally" and pay your taxes you're OK!
Or am I wrong in making a distinction between the two?
jojo said:
But I was thinking more in the context of a group of people, men, women and children, as are hunter gatherers tribes, families or clans . In the course of trying to sustain such a life, such a group would surely attract the attention of the authorities of any countries.
I only have to look at the way the authorities and the population here in England regard the "travellers" and Gypsies to make me think that they would also look askance on people living the life of the hunter gatherers.
A coulpe of years ago, rumours started than travellers were on their way to set up camp in a field behind uor house. The police arrived, the farmer who owned the fields sent a JCB to dig trenches and block all the accesses to the field. As it turned out nothing happened. But if it was a "tribe" of hunter gatherers, what would the reaction have been?
A "self sufficient" lifestyle is a different context. It is quite possible to do this in this country. As long as your seen to behave "normally" and pay your taxes you're OK!
Or am I wrong in making a distinction between the two?
Some ideas:
Crypto-hunter-gatherer: Disguising as common travellers, but subsisting mainly on poached or free wilds. Trading crafts or whatever for money for petrol etc...
The pest-eater: Everywhere you go, you seek out local landowners known to be bothered with a pest. Be it badger, pigeon or rabbit. Make a deal that you will live and eat off their property until the pest-problem is under control or at least to tolerable levels. The agreement is that you may take all available wild veggies and of course the pest-animals for your food.
Coast-walker: Live and subsist from the coastline. Whenever you have exhausted an area you move on. The British coastline is long, don't know whether the productivity is high enough though.
The Aleut: Move to a very remote island or preferrably an island group. Introduce burrowers or if there are wild sheep you may use them. The islands are base for a very aquatic lifestyle. Hunting seals and small whales for food and skins for your currachs, while most of the food comes from fish. Probably the best/most realistic way of hiding from society and living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
Hiding children is a problem. But again, if you keep dogs and travel lightly you can be gone in a flash. As a backup plan, you could send some off to pretend to be lost in the woods (in modern clothes) and the rest pack up camp and move on. The decoys being brought back when the land-owner has left them.
What kind of prices are we talking about to get set up to do this?
Lets say 10 Acres of mixed wood and growing land, some basic machinery and a house on it?
I understand its all about location and condition, but I am rather intrigued as to how much it costs to get going.
Lets say 10 Acres of mixed wood and growing land, some basic machinery and a house on it?
I understand its all about location and condition, but I am rather intrigued as to how much it costs to get going.
Earthpeace said:Is it possible in this modern day, to be totality ' self sufficient' ?
We ( I say we because we live together as a Clan , my mum & dad, two sisters and their two boy friends and my 3 year old niece)
We live a 'self sufficient life' growing are own veg,fruit and meat for the table. Mum and I make the family clothes hand spun & hand knitted from are animal fleeces and furs. The idea being to not make money but not to spend money. You ask your self do I really need this item? Can I not use somthing else, can I make it ?
But there always seems to be somthing you need but can not make.
So I ask the Q can you be totality self sufficient? Like going into the wood and making a house, log cabin ( no caves around here) with no modern tools, and make tools from the land you're standing on and not getting the metal or flit from somwhere else ( no flit here either ). How much land would 6 + people need to hunt and forage? We have about 100 acres of wood and pature, and there is not enough wild animals to keep us in meat for the year because they are heavily hunted by the French. (we live in France)
Just to give you somthing to think about ,look around you in your house and think, if I was in the wild wood with no electric ect, mean's no tv ( we don't have one) computer ect the liste could go on for ever.
But this is what we are striving to do ( totality mad I know).
People think stone age primitve people as thick animals but I take my hat off to them, If they were here now they'd be the one's having a laugh, on how dependant on the modern world we have become.
Just thought I'd put this post on, to see what you people out there think to total sufficency.
In my opinion, the answer to your question is no.
My turn to ask a question why would you want to? I can understand trying to live a better life, a more sustainable life. A life that has none of the pressures and worries of a modern existence. But why retard yourself. It is possible to have the best of both worlds.
If you have a spring or stream, you can dam it and build a mill and mill pond, that gives you both the power to grind your corn/wheat, also could also harness the power to run a forge or machine shop. When you do not need them you can use the power to charge batteries, giving you power for lights and communication. A mill pond will enable you to store water for a fishery, and allow you to grow aquatic foods like watercress, also to raise freshwater shellfish.
In times past
In my opinion you can discount the cave man myths of isolated groups of people, living a self sufficient life. There rarely was such a time in human history where a single small group was isolated and self sufficient and successful. Large groups of people lived with in walking distance of each other; maybe family sized twenty or so people sharing a collection of buildings and compounds. There is just no way on group could have enough skilled people to provide everything needed.
Just to keep a few cows, for example, youd need the skills of a cooper, a metal smith, a tin smith, a farmer (in this case you), someone skilled in animal husbandry. Youd need to plan for winter youd need people available to harvest grass for winter, a barn to store it, metal blades to cut the grass and time to do so, people skilled in the scythe to get it in quickly enough so the rains didnt ruin a whole years worth of work. Youd need a thatcher, to make your barns roof water tight, a quarry man, to provide the stone for the walls, someone able to slake the lime for the walls, a woodsman to provide the timber for the roof and doors, and a hauler to get it all to your place. All these people need to be paid and or fed. For that to work, there would have to be enough work in the locality for them to earn a living all the year round, and for enough years for them to gain the skills needed, so when You needed them, they knew what they had to do.
If you practiced all those skills for one hour a week, you would not have enough time to learn them and farm the land.
Take your cream separator, I restored one of these twenty years ago. I had to have the base re-cast so I had to make a pattern, which I had to have seasoned close grained wood, then have it cast in iron, then I had to have the cream container tinned so it didnt leak, I tried soldering it, but it didnt work. So I had a new one made, by a wire worker and tin smith. All in all it took 40 hours of labour to get it working as it should, I was a skilled engineer, and still I had to get most of the work farmed out. If I had to work on the farm in between working on it that would have meant that fourteen milking worth of milk would have either go to waste or there would have been a lot of cheese making to do.
I would love to be more self sufficient, but I think its just not possible for one small group of people. Youd need to move to a place where whole groups of people are all willing to try it together. I thing the most anyone could hope for is a group of like minded people all aiming for a limited impact life style.
Having said all that I wish you lots of luck and envy you the freedom to try and make a better life.
B]Snufkin[/B] I used Alum and salt, I've tried veg tan sevral times and failed
Simon E for the type of land size you said with a house and barn ap £100.000 but its the house that makes it expensive if you just look for land its a lot cheeper, if you are planing to be a farmer they will let you build on the land if its big enough.
Tadpole I agree thats one of the problems we have. Trying to be Jack of all trades. Its a lot easy for the Amish in america were they are a full community with black smiths ,farmers,basket makers, harness makers, tanners, horse powered farms ect but they are a community of religion ( not the there is anything wrong with this). like a lot of the new eco villages are but there are eco villages springing up all over of different type all over the world.
There again I was meaning a primitive like style with no domestic animals.
Because after farming a while you have to stop and think, want you are doing, for example we raise sheep and pigs. If you think from start to finish want this means eg . You have to buy a tractor, a plough, plough the land which you have buy as well, buy a disc and a rake probably, sow the corn, put on the fertilser, weed killer and heaven knows want else. Pay or buy a combine harvester. buy a trailor to transport the grain,silos to put the grain in. Then there's the hay, balers grass cutters, spinner, baling twine. Then buildings, pasture & fencing maintenance animal salt blocks, wormers, vaccines, tagging, paperwork
and the brake downs and diesel the list go's on.
You have to ask your way? All this work and money for what Meat?
Then you look at a deers and wild boar which has had no one worm it or someone to look after it night and day ..and just look at them healthy and meaty, only work to do is to hunt them.
I know that the most of the things you buy for a farm are one off payments i'm just making a point
I know if everybody was to go out hunting there would be no wild animals left ( like in france) but maybe if more people-farmers start putting land aside and maintained the land and the wild animals it could work.
Just a thought
Simon E for the type of land size you said with a house and barn ap £100.000 but its the house that makes it expensive if you just look for land its a lot cheeper, if you are planing to be a farmer they will let you build on the land if its big enough.
Tadpole I agree thats one of the problems we have. Trying to be Jack of all trades. Its a lot easy for the Amish in america were they are a full community with black smiths ,farmers,basket makers, harness makers, tanners, horse powered farms ect but they are a community of religion ( not the there is anything wrong with this). like a lot of the new eco villages are but there are eco villages springing up all over of different type all over the world.
There again I was meaning a primitive like style with no domestic animals.
Because after farming a while you have to stop and think, want you are doing, for example we raise sheep and pigs. If you think from start to finish want this means eg . You have to buy a tractor, a plough, plough the land which you have buy as well, buy a disc and a rake probably, sow the corn, put on the fertilser, weed killer and heaven knows want else. Pay or buy a combine harvester. buy a trailor to transport the grain,silos to put the grain in. Then there's the hay, balers grass cutters, spinner, baling twine. Then buildings, pasture & fencing maintenance animal salt blocks, wormers, vaccines, tagging, paperwork
and the brake downs and diesel the list go's on.
You have to ask your way? All this work and money for what Meat?
Then you look at a deers and wild boar which has had no one worm it or someone to look after it night and day ..and just look at them healthy and meaty, only work to do is to hunt them.
I know that the most of the things you buy for a farm are one off payments i'm just making a point
I know if everybody was to go out hunting there would be no wild animals left ( like in france) but maybe if more people-farmers start putting land aside and maintained the land and the wild animals it could work.
Just a thought
Earthpeace
I think a cow hide may be too thick to tan hair on with tannins. It needs so long soaking time that the hair will slip. But it should still make excellent leather though.
I have tanned very little, but alder is said to produce the softest leather, while oak the hardest. With a weasel pelt (alder tan) and a roe deer hide (braintan, wet scrape) as my only real tanning experience, I would crossreference a little.
What you need to tan hair on primitively is probably to use the braintan, dry scrape technique. That will thin it too. Never tried dry scraping, but there are some books on the subject.
I think a cow hide may be too thick to tan hair on with tannins. It needs so long soaking time that the hair will slip. But it should still make excellent leather though.
I have tanned very little, but alder is said to produce the softest leather, while oak the hardest. With a weasel pelt (alder tan) and a roe deer hide (braintan, wet scrape) as my only real tanning experience, I would crossreference a little.
What you need to tan hair on primitively is probably to use the braintan, dry scrape technique. That will thin it too. Never tried dry scraping, but there are some books on the subject.
Earthpeace said:B]Snufkin[/B] I used Alum and salt, I've tried veg tan sevral times and failed
Simon E for the type of land size you said with a house and barn ap £100.000 but its the house that makes it expensive if you just look for land its a lot cheeper, if you are planing to be a farmer they will let you build on the land if its big enough.
Tadpole I agree thats one of the problems we have. Trying to be Jack of all trades. Its a lot easy for the Amish in america were they are a full community with black smiths ,farmers,basket makers, harness makers, tanners, horse powered farms ect but they are a community of religion ( not the there is anything wrong with this). like a lot of the new eco villages are but there are eco villages springing up all over of different type all over the world.
There again I was meaning a primitive like style with no domestic animals.
Because after farming a while you have to stop and think, want you are doing, for example we raise sheep and pigs. If you think from start to finish want this means eg . You have to buy a tractor, a plough, plough the land which you have buy as well, buy a disc and a rake probably, sow the corn, put on the fertilser, weed killer and heaven knows want else. Pay or buy a combine harvester. buy a trailor to transport the grain,silos to put the grain in. Then there's the hay, balers grass cutters, spinner, baling twine. Then buildings, pasture & fencing maintenance animal salt blocks, wormers, vaccines, tagging, paperwork
and the brake downs and diesel the list go's on.
You have to ask your way? All this work and money for what Meat?
Then you look at a deers and wild boar which has had no one worm it or someone to look after it night and day ..and just look at them healthy and meaty, only work to do is to hunt them.
I know that the most of the things you buy for a farm are one off payments i'm just making a point
I know if everybody was to go out hunting there would be no wild animals left ( like in france) but maybe if more people-farmers start putting land aside and maintained the land and the wild animals it could work.
Just a thought
I personally think that the only way to a live a life like that, would be if everyone in the area lived like it.
Keeping no animals, means hunting, and to do that you have to keep moving. Foraging for wild food means whole seasons where there is just not enough to go round.
You would find that it might be easier to live a nomadic existence by moving to the vastness of the steppes of somewhere like Russia, where there is currently land and food aplenty. It of course would mean displacing the locals, or applying an unsustainable load on the ecology of the place. The traditional home lands of the local tribe who, like you would be trying not only to survive and preserve a ancient way of life, against the attraction of warmth, cities, alcohol, employment, an easier life for the kids, better medical attention. But they also have to compete with, incomers buying up and fancing whole tracts of their traditional migratory routes; the land quickly being logged out and cleared by the new-rich in an effort to make money, and of course bring their own particular brand of civilisation.
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