I hate magpies!

[daveO]

I think the jackdaws picked up the trick from them as well.

Jackdaws are amazingly bright birds. They come and raid my garden every day, drives me mad but I've learned to love them. I've tried loads of ways to keep them off the feeders and they always work out a way around it. One even managed to undo the knot in some string to get in. Probably says more about my knot tying though.

 

[treadlightly]

I will kill corvids at any opportunity I can.

Why? For pleasure or are you fulfilling some social or moral purpose?

 

[Bushwhacker]

Why? For pleasure or are you fulfilling some social or moral purpose?

Have a think next time you're tucking into some lamb stew. This poor ewe was alive when corvids did this.

 

[Harvestman]

Corvids are predators. That's what they do.

 

[Bushwhacker]

Corvids are predators. That's what they do.

Foxes too.

 

[salan]

Think silicon and implants

lol Ah bad day at work here.
Alan

 

[widu13]

Corvids are predators. That's what they do.

So are we.

 

[Harvestman]

That's right. My statement is made without judgement, or the corvid, or the fox, or the person who chooses to shoot them. But let's not criticise predators for doing what they have to do to stay alive.

To a caterpillar, a Great Tit is a terrible and fearsome predator.

 

[Niels]

Foxes too.

Humans too. And they do worse things to animals and each other than pecking eyes out.
If corvids weren't supposed to be in our ecosystem than nature wouldn't let there be any.

 

[treadlightly]

I don't see how you can apply moral standards to animals so that it becomes Ok to shoot them because they do something that is morally repugnant to us.

The only 'animal' we can apply morality to is ourselves and generally we don't come out too well. Imagine if there was a Corvid Court of Avian Rights, we would be the lowest of the low.

 

[boatman]

Elsewhere on the web one can find comments that it is bad farmers and shepherds who complain about corvids and whose stock apparently suffers. Having been frequently reminded of my ignorance of country matters I couldn't possibly comment but merely put the proposition up for discussion.

 

[Harvestman]

To clarify, I have no problem with people shooting things like foxes or corvids for reason of protecting livestock, or for ecological management. I see no difference between that and scrub removal to protect a wetland from invading willow.

 

[widu13]

I have no problem with anyone standing up for animal rights, but I will also stand up for mine. The law says I can do it and anyone trying to stop me is breaking it. There are many, many ways that native animals cause suffering, damage and problems on farms. That is why farmers allow shooters on their land. The law recognises the damage that corvids do. Those laws (general licence) are reviewed annually and the people who renew them are voted in by the majority. I won't get into politics other than to say if you don't like the specified "pest" species...lobby against it.

When they are no longer on the list I will cease to pursue them.

 

[Harvestman]

I have no problem with anyone standing up for animal rights, but I will also stand up for mine. The law says I can do it and anyone trying to stop me is breaking it. There are many, many ways that native animals cause suffering, damage and problems on farms. That is why farmers allow shooters on their land. The law recognises the damage that corvids do. Those laws (general licence) are reviewed annually and the people who renew them are voted in by the majority. I won't get into politics other than to say if you don't like the specified "pest" species...lobby against it.

When they are no longer on the list I will cease to pursue them.

Agree with this. That's a sensible and reasoned approach.

The whole topic can be very emotive, which itself causes problems when people are discussing things remotely (like this) rather than face to face.

Thanks to all on here for calm responses where opinions differ.

 

[mountainm]

My original point (which I think is what other people are saying too) is that the reason to kill something shouldn't be because you don't like it. If you're protecting your flock, or your possessions then that's different. I'm not comfortable with the "natures vigilante" reason of protecting songbirds though. If a cull is required then that should be orchestrated through official channels.

That being said if the law allows you to shoot them then no one can stop you, but shooting them out of hatred is no good reason at all.

 

[daveO]

Have a think next time you're tucking into some lamb stew. This poor ewe was alive when corvids did this.

Was that sheep sick or unable to defend itself? There's a field over the road from my office that has ewes and lambs in every spring. It's shared with all kinds of corvids and even the very young lambs are fine. In fact if the birds even get close to one the ewes will charge them. I even watched a raven and a buzzard having a standoff in the middle of the field and a sheep charged in to break up the fight.

 

[HillBill]

Shot two this morning!!! They were going through the bird nests in my conifers - they managed to kill and eat two great tit chicks before I got my gun!!!!!! Vermin!!!!!!

We shoot and trap them on our allotments as they go for the chicks, ducklings, and young quails. Crows too.

What makes great tits any better than magpies and who are you to judge??

The British association for shooting and Conservation did the judging. Would you allow rats to run free in your home? What about a wasps nest inside your house or within the walls? Cockroaches? Would you leave them be or call in pest control? Do you think pest control would reason with them to leave, or kill them? What about fleas on a pet? Are you happy to leave them on or would you use a flea collar or somesuch. What about lice in a childs hair? leave them or kill them? All are living things....cant kill the lice in a childs hair or the rats in your house and have issues with someone shooting a maggie.

Nothing, but having seen magpies, rooks and crows take young lambs eyes whilst they are alive; it would seem that great tits are slightly less harmful.

I will kill corvids at any opportunity I can. Who is anyone to judge me at what I am lawfully able to do in accordance with the general licence?

We have a field of ewes and lambs between our house and the allotments, the corvids are always harrasing them.

Was that sheep sick or unable to defend itself? There's a field over the road from my office that has ewes and lambs in every spring. It's shared with all kinds of corvids and even the very young lambs are fine. In fact if the birds even get close to one the ewes will charge them. I even watched a raven and a buzzard having a standoff in the middle of the field and a sheep charged in to break up the fight.

If there was no danger from the corvids.... would the sheep charge them?

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Have a think next time you're tucking into some lamb stew. This poor ewe was alive when corvids did this.

The next time I tuck into a lamb stew I'll be thinking more about what the lamb went through at the abattoir.

 

[widu13]

The next time I tuck into a lamb stew I'll be thinking more about what the lamb went through at the abattoir.

A bit OT, but in the early 80s I worked in 2 abattoirs as a Saturday job. Undoubtedly they knew something was amiss, but all were treated humanely.

 

[treadlightly]

The British association for shooting and Conservation did the judging. Would you allow rats to run free in your home? What about a wasps nest inside your house or within the walls? Cockroaches? Would you leave them be or call in pest control? Do you think pest control would reason with them to leave, or kill them? What about fleas on a pet? Are you happy to leave them on or would you use a flea collar or somesuch. What about lice in a childs hair? leave them or kill them? All are living things....cant kill the lice in a childs hair or the rats in your house and have issues with someone shooting a maggie.

Strictly speaking, you are right. However, I would draw a distinction between killing a corvid because it killed a great tit chick and offended our moral code (who are we to judge) and killing them to protect our livestock or interests. It's what Mountainm called the 'nature's vigilante' approach that I too have problems with.

For the record, we have had a couple of wasps' nests in the eaves above our kitchen over the years and tolerated them. Both parties co-existed perfectly well. I have killed fleas on my dog and cats and the lice in my son's hair. No experience of cockroaches or rats but have shared the house with the odd mouse without resorting to traps or poison.