Greenhouse heaters

[cbr6fs]

cbr6fs, you continue to shout out your "Facts" however at no point have you provided any evidence, only opinion. I have provided evidence and references to counter your highly vocal claims yet you choose to ignore them.

The heat pal rik will be using is designed for heating small spaces such as boats and tents and I have never head any problems with people using them who know what they are doing.

I wouldn't mind your opinion if you were not so forceful in trying to convince people of your opinion by packaging it as fact and you insistance at insulting people (mainly me) in your posts for no reason.

One last repeat of key information. It is common advice to use a candle in a snow cave etc to provide light, heat and and indication your air vent is blocked. Please watch the video I posted on page 2 for this advice straight from Ray Mears.

Reread my posts and i believe i've made my points perfectly clear.
I've quoted your mistakes and tried to clarify any confusion.

As i've done this you've refused all logic, taken parts of what i said out of context and exaggerated others.

You are on the internet, if you search and look for answers they are out there, it's basic physics and chemistry we are talking here, not some black magic.

I've read it, does my head in to be honest, the way people talk you'd think methanol was on a par with Uranium, utter tosh. I'll be using methanol in the Heatpal and I have absolutely zero, nada, not one worry about doing so; I won't drink it, won't wash in it, just burn it.

A familiar name over there spouting off the same as here, like a

Richard,

I assumed we were reasonable adults having a reasonable adult discussion, yet again you take a well presented opinion, based upon scientific facts, not to mention COSHH and the warnings the producers print on the labels, then misquote and exaggerate to ridiculous proportions, in some weird attempt to claw back some points in a game where no one is counting or cares.

Please point out to me where i said Methanol is on par with Uranium, in fact please point out where i insinuated to, it even in the slightest degree.

Absolutely ridiculous, childish and very very disappointing.

It's the same here.
There was some confusion between CO2 and CO which i believe i've clarified.
There was a inaccurate post stating that a candle would go out, again i hope i've made it clear you'd be dead before it did.
We can buy sleeping bags that will keep you toasty warm in all but the most severe conditions anywhere on the planet, never mind a UK winter.
It's been shown that the heat output from a candle is insignificant.

So i have an opinion that, in a normal type tent that's not designed for heating devices, it's better to buy the correct equipment (i.e, correctly rated sleeping bag, head torch) rather than risk CO poisoning by improvising some form of in-tent heating device.

You have a different opinion that's up to you.
My opinion is we should be careful on what we "advise" as we don't know who will be reading at a later date.
As an example, how would you feel if you saw your grandkids in the garden playing with Methanol, because they read your post that ALL it's dangers are exaggerated.
Likewise would you let your grandkids sleep in a tent with a candle lit all night.

My guess is no.

Is my opinion really THAT extreme, all i'm saying is if you have little experience with chemicals just slip on a pair of gloves and eye protection.
It takes seconds for me and i've only got 1 arm that works.

Is my opinion THAT extreme that i don't advise people to have a naked flame in their tent, unless they tale certain precautions.
Is it THAT extreme that people should be very very very careful with any fossil fuelled heating device in a tent?

Sure old farts like us might have done worse, BUT it's not only old farts like us that read these threads, we have to think that a fair amount of kids are on here and will read this thread in the future.
Kids with little or no understanding of CO poisoning, basic health and safety and little in the way of common sense if my teenage yeas were anything to go by.

So i take exception to posts like "well you're still alive so is that not enough proof, did you feel ill?"
Is THAT such an extreme opinion really?



Cheers
Mark

 

[rik_uk3]

If your an adult, treat other adults with having some common sense and please desist with lectures and sermons, its too early in the day.

The way this and other forums are going you won't be able to post anything without adding some sort of legal disclaimer. When someone asks "Whats the best rucksack"...... don't answer, what if they take your tip, buy the pack and pull a muscle lifting it... you'll be on Judge Judy in a flash.

The day I need to pack protective gloves and masks so I can fill up a stove or lantern will be the day I put all my stoves and lanterns in a skip.

A question about biscuits was the straw that broke the camel's back for one member here this week, this thread is getting pretty close to that for me.

 

[cbr6fs]

If your an adult, treat other adults with having some common sense and please desist with lectures and sermons, its too early in the day.

The way this and other forums are going you won't be able to post anything without adding some sort of legal disclaimer. When someone asks "Whats the best rucksack"...... don't answer, what if they take your tip, buy the pack and pull a muscle lifting it... you'll be on Judge Judy in a flash.

The day I need to pack protective gloves and masks so I can fill up a stove or lantern will be the day I put all my stoves and lanterns in a skip.

A question about biscuits was the straw that broke the camel's back for one member here this week, this thread is getting pretty close to that for me.

You've done it again, you've taken a fair and sensible bit of advice and blown it up to ridiculous proportions.

How can you possibly get from me advising caution about having fossil fuelled heaters in a tent to pulling a muscle when lifting a rucksack?

Hundreds if not thousands of people die each year from CO poisoning, there have been a spate of people being found dead from CO poisoning because they bought BBQ's in their tent, many of these in the UK.

The risk is very real, unlike the risk from a rucksack.

Would you let you grandkids fill one of your stoves with Methanol without gloves?
Would you let your grandkids sleep in a tent with lit non protected candles?

 

[bigroomboy]

Maybe its you insistence to package your advice and opinion as "fact" with no supporting evidence, that winds people up so much.

There is nothing wrong with your advice from a cautious stand point, but that does not mean people have to choose to follow it. The only person to advise anybody to do anything has been you, everybody else is talking from a point of view of what they feel comfortable doing.

And please don't miss quote me:

well you're still alive so is that not enough proof, did you feel ill? Get a CO alarm to be safe.

The reply was in jest with the important part at the end which strangely you missed off. The heat-pal is designed for these situations and is even sold by tentipi for this application. I was only trying to offset the scare mongers who would like everybody to wrap themselves in bubble wrap and not take responsibility and think about what they are doing. However if you have done something many times with out adverse effects then the evidence is right there staring you in the face.

 

[salan]

Totally agree Rik. I have used methanol for years. Just treat it like you should all fuels, WITH RESPECT. simples!

 

[rik_uk3]

Totally agree Rik. I have used methanol for years. Just treat it like you should all fuels, WITH RESPECT. simples!

Thank you Salan, common sense is not dead it seems

 

[salan]

This used to be a friendly forum to visit.
I don't post much but read every post and have enjoyed a lot, but life is too short for this!
no one is going to 'get the better' it's become a 'pissing contest' not for sorry.
Time to go.
Alan

 

[leon-1]

Right here goes, this was a very nice forum to attend.

It will be again, the main protagonists of this thread have been noted, I am now going to ask that you take a step back and deep breath and forget this thread. Do not attempt to re-open this discussion as it's beginning to get an unsavoury undercurrent and I and the other mods don't like it. If you ignore this warning you will be banned.

This thread had it's time and now it's over as I am about to close it.

There are good bits of information in this thread.

I have used stoves inside tents, I spent 4.5 months in the Antarctic, however the tent had good ventilation and a flap in the floor for placing the stove.

I have used candles in snow holes as well and although the temperature was -45 with a 50 mph wind outside the temperature inside was -6 this was partly due to the body heat of the people, the heat generated by the candle and the insulative effect of snow. We also maintained a candle watch and part of this watch meant maintaining correct levels of ventilation, this being especially necessary when using a snow hole made using tunnel method.

In the end this thread started off with a simple question, the answer could have been given as "As long as the correct levels of airflow and ventilation are adhered to then you could in theory use pretty much anything, however you are not always likely to get this in a 2 man tent, it's also not good practice to sleep with an open flame or a flame that could possibly be kicked over within your plastic shelter".