Defender V Hilux, Head V Heart

[silva]

Hi Guys,
now first first off, this isn't a thread asking comparisons between a 110 defender and the Hilux. I've owned more landies than you can shake a big stick at and we have several Hiluxes at work that i use on a daily basis.
No, my question is head or Heart. I really do love defenders but, at around my £9000 budget, i'm really looking at a 2002/03 plate, 100k+ miles. now i know from experience that this is around the age that things start to go bandy with solihuls finest.
Now Hiluxes, for the same money, are more likely to be around 07/08 plate, 80-90k. They are reliable and come with mod cons (such as a heater).
There isn't much to compare off-road (yes yes, i know the defender is way better, but how often do you actually go where a hilux would not make it, not very often really), space wise the hilux wins. So even stevens so far.
Now my prob is my heart, i do have a love (misplaced perhaps) for the old landys but should i listen to it, higher fuel bills, insurance, repair bills and discomfort and all, or should i let the head win and upgrade to a modern jap wagon?
Is it the image thing or just the harking back to simpler days without gadgets and gizmos?
All comments welcome.

Cheers

Baggins

I've run both hilux's and landys and like them both very much. Off road ability between the two is just down to tyres. Landrovers require love and a gentle driving style regarding the transmisson and regular maintenance while hilux's just keep going on forever, what ever you do to them.
If I was you I would buy a mint low mileage example of one of the last MK5 hilux's pickups (proper hilux made in japan) made between 2002 AND 2005). These have the D4D engine - 105 bhp and 30 to the gallon and drive like a car. Will cost you about £5,000 or so, for a really good one. The Mk4's (1997 to 2002), are good too, still turbo'd but with slightly less horsepower @ around £3500 for a well looked after one.
Though my personal favourite, is the MK3 hilux (1989 to 1996) is even tougher with leaf spring suspension and 26 to the gallon. Unburstable non turbo engine which regularly does over 220,000 miles - Very easy and cheap to fix, but slower. Cost around £2000 to £2500 for a very good example.
Cheers

 

[Jinsin456]

All of my mates now drive defenders and trust me with certain upgrades they are very safe. One of them hit a focus that stopped abruptly in front of him, he had a winch bumper and winch and there was not a scratch on the front end but the back of the focus was a right mess (11 plate so not old).

If the defender had airbags then I am certain they would have deployed as the impact was quite hard (15-20mph) and this would have resulted in an expensive bill to have them reset and new bags fitted despite no damage to car or passengers.

As mentioned the only expensive repairs will be if it goes in somewhere, I have owned japanese cars and worked on a friends nevara and they are a nightmare, everything is designed for people with very small hands or multiple parts have to be removed to gain access to the part you want. In a landy everything just seems where it should be and access is simple probably unless you are a bear.

There are comprehensive guides on land rover repairs EVERYWHERE on the Internet, whereas through my mate with the nevara this does not seem to be the case. It's true if buying a landy you will need to buy tools but it's actually quite fun fixing it, I tend to restore whatever I'm fixing so the landy is giving me an excuse to restore quite a bit.

I bought my 90 in January and since then it has not been to a garage and I have put a new steering box and drop arm on, gave it a service, rebuild my drivers side hub, fitted basically a new dash (though choice not necessity) and other general things. All of this has been done with a basic halfords socket set, a high lift jack and axle stands and no job has ever really taken more than a day.

 

[santaman2000]

...There are comprehensive guides on land rover repairs EVERYWHERE on the Internet, whereas through my mate with the nevara this does not seem to be the case....

Since the early 1980s I've always made that a condition of my purchace, that the dealer throw in a new shop repair manual (the manufacturer's one) for the vehicle being bought. Including Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Jeep, and Dodge. They've never had a problem with it.

The only exception was a Morris I bought as a more or less disposable temporary vehicle after a wreck while in England.

 

[Rockmonkey]

That's the only problem with a defender, cheap for parts and easy to fix, but that's All you ever do, fix the damn thing!
The hilux is a bugger to work on, but my friends hilux has only been to the garage once in 6 years, radiator change, other than mot's, all he does is service it himself every year, and happy driving.
I drive an L200 2001 model, best tree surgeons work horse you can get, but I would still love a defender 110
Pro's and con's for both, it comes down to, if i had the money, and the time to be constantly fixing the landy, that's what I would buy, but I don't, I have to work for a living!
Happy decision Making!

RM

 

[MartiniDave]

I have to confess I had to make a repair to my 94 Defender 90 last week. Would you beleive the driver's door hinges had worn out after only 18 years. Cost over a tenner to fix it too!

Dave

 

[Jinsin456]

Since the early 1980s I've always made that a condition of my purchace, that the dealer throw in a new shop repair manual (the manufacturer's one) for the vehicle being bought. Including Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Jeep, and Dodge. They've never had a problem with it.

The only exception was a Morris I bought as a more or less disposable temporary vehicle after a wreck while in England.

I tend typo find that the workshop manuals (again easily available online) can be handy but also a bit vague.

I generally use http://www.repairmylandrover.co.uk/ as the guy on here has compiled a very good and fool proof guide for most of the run of the mill jobs, very handy and I have never found a page like this for any other car.

Another good thing is that there are dedicated parts places just for landrovers and everything has a part number so easy to find and compare prices amongst the main sites. It is like a part time job tbh but mine is a 1990 defener 90 and it's not been TOO bad, I tend to fix things at the first sign of trouble so a lot of jobs I have done could have been put off for a while.

 

[lavrentyuk]

Well two acquantances have had the Hilux, and both ended up needing replacement engines at a truly vast cost.

I had a Nissan Terrano II that was being eaten alive by rust and the cost of parts was horrendous.

So I went out and bought a Discovery 300 Tdi two weeks ago and my heart is really enjoying it. Not as expensive/classic as a Defender but I'm happy with it and where I live (West Wales) there are mechanics and spares galore. Two specialists in my town alone.

 

[bdshim]

must have been newer than 1996 hilux?

 

[Chrisf]

As the owner of 12+ past land rovers, 3 hiluxs, 1 L200 and 1 new discovery 4. Buy the hilux. Land rovers are for people that enjoy spending their weekends putting stuff back on that fell off or broke during the week. Ps good luck with a discovery in the last 6 months mine has spent more time with the dealer having electrical faults and bug fixes than its been on my drive. Not that I'm a bitter man!

Regards Chris

 

[santaman2000]

I tend typo find that the workshop manuals (again easily available online) can be handy but also a bit vague.

I generally use http://www.repairmylandrover.co.uk/ as the guy on here has compiled a very good and fool proof guide for most of the run of the mill jobs, very handy and I have never found a page like this for any other car....

Granted some manuals are better than others. I liked the ones by Toyota as they were written with both the professional Toyota mechanic AND the owner or independant mechanic in mind. The whole repair procedures were written so that the independants or owners could get the whole story, while the Toyota mechnics could simply follow that already understood Toyota's language and protocols could scan only the bits in boldface type.

The ones I liked the most however were those for Dodge/Chrysler (which includes the Jeep I owned as well as my current truck) because of the format. Chrysler had very large government contracts for most of the 1980s and 1990s. During that time they formatted their manuals identically to an Air Force Technical Order (known in the Army as a "Technical manual" and the Navy/Marine Corps as "NavAir.") that I had been trained to use.

 

[Intheround]

For the last 3 years most weekends have been impacted in some way by the other halfs 90 repairs. It has been fun at times
but now is sitting waiting for it's fate to be decided on the driveway. I don't really mind either way if it stays or not but for everyday use give me fuel economy, doors that seal and a heater.

 

[Andy BB]

Purely out of interest, how does the Jeep stack up for reliability etc- preferably with the diesel engine!

And do any of our colonial colleagues know if they actually sell it with a diesel engine in the USA?

 

[santaman2000]

Purely out of interest, how does the Jeep stack up for reliability etc- preferably with the diesel engine!

And do any of our colonial colleagues know if they actually sell it with a diesel engine in the USA?

Mechanical reliability is good. The problem with Jeeps is rust; the body shape that we love just has to many moisture traps (same with almost all good 4x4s really) Although that's not really a problem in the desert areas, it's a real b1tch here along the salty coast.

No. They don't sell the Wrangler with a diesel option although they keep starting rumors of, "next year." They have offered the Liberty and the Grand Cherokee with diesel in limited numbers on rare occassions.

 

[Lordyosch]

I've got an '06 plate Ford Ranger (Thats a MkII XLT spec, if you're geeky) I LOVE it. I really do!

Had it for about 18months or so, in its previous life it belonged to a landscape gardener/tree surgeon so its not been thrashed, just used.

I have for a long time been a Defender fan but have never had the money to buy a newish, reasonably specced one. For the age/mileage/spec on my truck £6k, i'd have been looking at £10k plus for defender 110CSW.

I've never looked at a defender and felt jealous, they're great trucks but I reckon for my purposes the Ranger actually suits better. I've green laned it a tiny bit, trundled around the Galloway forest trails (forestry access routes) and driven it to France. Its comfy, fast enough on the motorway and capable enough in the snow.

As someone above said they are Rear wheel drive which does mean they're 'exciting' in the slippy stuff unless you turn on the 4wd.

Last weekend in Galloway a mate and I bivied in the back! I'm 6'2" and left the tail open but had the canopy closed so my feet stuck out onto the tail in a bivi bag. It was really comfortable and surprisingly warm too! I don't think I could do that in a Landy as the load space is shorter (especially on the defender pick up).

The new ones look better and have a better spec too. But alas I don't have £25k plus to spend on a new toy!

Jay

 

[nuggets]

i would rather put meat and two veg on my countrymans plate -than buy someone sushi or frankfurters in a far off land !!,-but since tata own the show now - ?????


i like my defender

 

[TROOPER]

Well another vote for the Navara, I have a 52 plate D22 but IMHO go for a D22 with all the engine mods done not the newer D40, shouldn't be difficult on your budget, i've owned the same one for 10yrs now, over K125 on the clock, has taken me everywhere i want to go off road and more plus has all the mod cons, easy to fix, easy to get bits for, good MPG for a 2.5TDi and infact i have not had to do anything to it other than change the oil and put tyres on it until this year, when its just had new clutch, discs, pads, shocks and exhaust. That doesn't include the engine mods required though. Having said that if you want to work it don't buy a Navara D40, timing chain and tensioner falls to bits around K60 miles, half shafts and bearings are prone to failing under load and they are built by Renault. Sorry i'll stop ranting now i've upset all the D40 owners.

 

[nuggets]

Does anyone think where `there` money goes too when they buy a car ?? and why is japan and germany such a strong economy when `we` are struggling with a double dip recession ???

 

[British Red]

Doesn't it go to India when you buy a Landrover?

Maybe buy a Morgan?

 

[santaman2000]

Doesn't it go to India when you buy a Landrover?

Maybe buy a Morgan?

A Morgan? The first American horse breed named after Justin Morgan? www.morganhorse.com/about_the_morgan

 

[British Red]

Classier than that