Bushcraft for challenging pupils...

[Hellz]

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet:

BBC: Bushcraft for challenging pupils

Dozens of pupils are being sent on Ray Mears-style bushcraft courses during term time to teach them "life skills".

Sounds like a positive thing to me, and perhaps something that ought to be offered to 'non-challenging' students too. Perhaps it will give kids some respect for Mother Nature.

Hellz

 

[Tengu]

What about me?

 

[moduser]

I know from experience that these programs can and do help youths with social issues etc

But I'm always unhappy that kids have to misbehave or have other difficulties to get on to these programs, what about the well adjusted, well behaved kids that loose out because they do nothing wrong?

Hummm

David

 

[Goose]

I think that some of the kids on this course may have behavioural problems because they dont fit, rather than just "being bad". As most of us(BCUK members) don't fit in the "normal" box maybe that is why we "do" bushcraft? I know if I was stuck in an office or factory 8 to 10 hours a day I would be (and have been!) seen as as a problem!
I take my kids out at weekends and we do stuff, they get opportunities to do things that most of their mates wouldn't, and I think this helps them to be better people all round, some kids either don't have parents at all or their parents can't or wont have any time for them and they end up trying to impress their mates instead. Dont they need better role models and a different outlook on life?
But I do take your point about offering stuff to better behaved kids and recently my daughter went on an outdoor pursuits course FREE!!! , paid for by Aim Higher a scheme set up to encourage kids to go to university so may be the opportunities are there they just don't get as much press?

Ps even after what I have said above, I do still think there kids out there that are just plain bad too, but they are in the minority the majority are the ones who see these idiots as role models unfortunately.

 

[moduser]

Goose

I hear you.

I'm not saying that disadvantaged children do not deserve or can't benefit from such schemes but I would also like to see more of these schemes opened up all children.

Not all parents can afford even the modest cost of groups such as scouting, or the children are reluctant to join an organised group due to social stigma etc

Some schemes do appear to be run especially to assist in helping with behaviour or social difficulties and that is a good thing but as long as it's not at the exclusion of others that do not meet certain critiria but would would still benefit and enjoy such activities.

I'd hate for the "well adjusted" kids to feel that the only way they can get to do cool stuff is by starting down the slippery slope.

david

 

[loz.]

Perhaps it will give kids some respect for Mother Nature.

Or just train bad kids how to make fire with no matches in our lovely woodland

 

[weekend_warrior]

Or just train bad kids how to make fire with no matches in our lovely woodland

A little myopic possibly? Bad kids will light a fire anyway, they'll use matches, lighters, fuel, ford fiestas etc... Why would they use a firebow to do it? Also you might consider that your sentiment is exactly what they face daily right now - bushcrafting may well give them skills, but it also increases self esteem and give purpose where often none exists. You might wanna read "last child in the woods" for some of the reasons why bushcraft for kids, all kids, would be a good thing.

 

[Hellz]

Or just train bad kids how to make fire with no matches in our lovely woodland

Perhaps, but I hope not. At the end of the day it's their lovely woodland too...

I agree with WW, teaching them something like this could be just what they need to make them feel good about themselves, perhaps then other people will start feeling good about them too.

But I also agree with Moduser, this should be an option for all. I was lucky enough to go to a school that encouraged outdoor activities and crafts, and I turned out ok...

Hellz

 

[JoeG]

I'd hate for the "well adjusted" kids to feel that the only way they can get to do cool stuff is by starting down the slippery slope.

But I'm always unhappy that kids have to misbehave or have other difficulties to get on to these programs, what about the well adjusted, well behaved kids that loose out because they do nothing wrong?

Hummm

David

I agree. There have been kids in my school that go out for the day and do things that are fun, and the kids that dont mess around and learn stay in school. Personally i think it is wrong because to improve someones behaviour, that if they do they dont go on the nice trips. The other side is that the kids that learn and dont mess around dont have interuptions from the other kids and they can learn more and supposedly get better jobs.
I dont go to the scouts because i dont wont to be sitting in a room most of the time, or any for that matter when i can be outside.
Many of the kids that will go will know how to make fire with turbo lighters and will probably already know how to get a lighter's flame to be so big that really, they dont wont to waste time doing fire by friction or using a fire steel.

 

[Tengu]

We see it as a good thing to help chavs, but children see things differently, they see troublemakers being rewarded

 

[leon-b]

i wish i could go to a bushcraft school once a week for two years
leon

 

[Roving Rich]

Hey why just the kids, why can't us adults go too !!

Seriously tho- the results from these courses are quite astonishing.
My friend Dave Goodworth (Some of you know him) is running such an establishment. He started as a bushcraft school, but is now almost entirely running Frontiers, with business partner Jon Berry.
The two of them have backgrounds in Pschycology and councelling among many other skills, which I think is what sets them apart from standard bushcraft Schools.
From what i have heard they are almost working miracles. Taking "delinquent" kids - kids that have been expelled from schools, play truent, disrupt classes or violent histories. Kids that the School system cannot deal with. Kids that have no future, no hope, and no direction. They give these kids a new start. Build them back up from the foundations, basic life skills as in bushcraft, then show them trust, break down barriers and talk to them. Some happen instantly some have taken years, but the all seem to be transformed into someone reasonable and respectful, someone with hope and a future to aim for.
It really is astounding work, teachers and head teachers are awe struck at what they have achieved. Not recognising the children that caused them so much grief.
Hats off to all the bushcraft Schools that are doing this ! I think Ed and Dave Watson are doing simular things. It must be very rewarding to see a happy young individual emerge from a twisted battered delinquent. It certainly hasn't been an easy task to build up such schools.

Good luck to them.

Cheers Rich

 

[weekend_warrior]

Hey why just the kids, why can't us adults go too !!

Seriously tho- the results from these courses are quite astonishing.
My friend Dave Goodworth (Some of you know him) is running such an establishment. He started as a bushcraft school, but is now almost entirely running Frontiers, with business partner Jon Berry.
The two of them have backgrounds in Pschycology and councelling among many other skills, which I think is what sets them apart from standard bushcraft Schools.
From what i have heard they are almost working miracles. Taking "delinquent" kids - kids that have been expelled from schools, play truent, disrupt classes or violent histories. Kids that the School system cannot deal with. Kids that have no future, no hope, and no direction. They give these kids a new start. Build them back up from the foundations, basic life skills as in bushcraft, then show them trust, break down barriers and talk to them. Some happen instantly some have taken years, but the all seem to be transformed into someone reasonable and respectful, someone with hope and a future to aim for.
It really is astounding work, teachers and head teachers are awe struck at what they have achieved. Not recognising the children that caused them so much grief.
Hats off to all the bushcraft Schools that are doing this ! I think Ed and Dave Watson are doing simular things. It must be very rewarding to see a happy young individual emerge from a twisted battered delinquent. It certainly hasn't been an easy task to build up such schools.

Good luck to them.

Cheers Rich

When I grow up - this is *exactly* what I want to do as my chosen occupation. I think organisations like this rock!

 

[Tengu]

Dont we still have borstalls for the likes of them?

And dont ask me to be sympathetic, cos Im not, and wont be untill I get the help I need.

Which strangley enough is availible to teens in my situation.)

 

[PJMCBear]

i wish i could go to a bushcraft school once a week for two years
leon

Start setting off the school fire alarms whenever someone says homework, and then when cornered, come out spitting and snarling, basking them over the head with a hand carved spoon. Swipe the teachers purse. Set fire to the bins with a hand drill. In biology, sniff the rat you're disecting and say "Mmmmm, good eating!"

That might do the trick, or at least get you excluded so you have more time to be in the woods.


PS. I am joking, BTW.

 

[ilovemybed]

I know from experience that these programs can and do help youths with social issues etc

But I'm always unhappy that kids have to misbehave or have other difficulties to get on to these programs, what about the well adjusted, well behaved kids that loose out because they do nothing wrong?

Hummm

David

I think that's who the Scouts is for...

 

[Tengu]

I tried getting into the Scouts

They said i was too old.

 

[bogflogger]

I have worked in the field of Outdoor Education for 20 years.

You are all missing the point of these courses, they are NOT about teaching Bushcraft, Canoeing, Climbing or any other Activity.

They are about Behavioural Modification and Personal Development.

As far as running these courses for all.......Fine!

This was supposedly going to be introduced as part of the National Curriculum in 1997.......I'm Still Waiting!

In the meantime, the only people who can afford to pay for Courses are Youth Justice Teams and Social Service Departments.

It is a fact of life that these Courses are expensive to run and until some fundamental changes are made to the Education System this is not going to change.

 

[Tengu]

But thats what I NEED....

 

[rich59]

Interesting discussion.

My question is - is scouting able to deliver this life coaching to the average lad that joins the troop? I used to be a scout leader and think I was touching on this subject of life coaching in the system that used to run of specific attainment targets/ badges/ awards. The lad/ lass attained a set of skills and then moved on to the next level.

I had to leave as my job changed, making the weekly commitment non viable. At about that time the programme changed - no longer about individual progress but about running a balanced programme. I was beginning to see some weaknesses in this but did not stay in the system long enough to confirm whether the changes were good or bad.

Now I have a laid back role with the troop - as the occasional visiting bushcraft guru. Great for me. But if I was able to do it in a life coaching kind of approach I wonder if the youngsters would get more out of it.

Could I get training in this life coaching approach in order to offer it to the scouts? Tengu is hinting that there are needs beyond the scout age group? Is there are wider demand then and the training to help mature bushcraft folk deliver this?




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