Witchcraft...

[firemaker]

I was at a Rendezvous here and met a man in passing who mentioned that someone he knew had told him that the fire piston traveled over to the Americas with the Pilgrims and that it was seen as witchcraft so it never took off like it did in Europe.

Has anyone else heard this before? I have done some research to no avail.

Becky

 

[Globetrotter.uk]

Many things that appear to be magical where classed as being either witchcraft or of the devil. But as a christian and one that loves bushcraft and knows how the piston works as like other fire lighting methods, it's not magic just simple knowledge.

 

[Tadpole]

Many things that appear to be magical where classed as being either witchcraft or of the devil. But as a christian and one that loves bushcraft and knows how the piston works as like other fire lighting methods, it's not magic just simple knowledge.

Clarke's third law
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

 

[korvin karbon]

Clarke's third law
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

damn it, you got there before me.

 

[Ivan]

Hi Becky,
Witchcraft was legalized in 1776 in the US, well before the firepiston came along. Remember, freedom of religion is in our constitution. Hope that helps.
-Ivan

 

[Indoorsout]

Legal perhaps, Ivan, but accepted? I doubt it

 

[Mike Ameling]

The earliest written documentation shows the fire piston being "discovered" in the late 1700's during that age of great exploration/voyages. But they were found in several places around the world - all around the same time. The two main places were on some islands in the South Pacific, and in South America (or was it Central America). How long had it existed before then? Unknown.

So current understanding is that the "techonology" came to Europe in the late 1700's. The first recorded patent for a fire piston was somewhere around 1813. But friction matches were just getting discovered/introduced around then, and the fire piston market died before it really ever got started.

That Pilgrims/witchcraft story is a poor myth - until someone comes up with credible documentation.

Lots of inventions and technology gets viewed as "magic" by those who have never seen anything like it before.

Take the example of coal or peat. Imagine what people thought when someone took those rocks and "dried mud" and BURNED IT. I bet it took several generations before that little bit of "magic" became just "common knowledge".

And then there was "heating" rocks to turn it into copper, bronze, or iron. Or mixing sulfer with those white crystals from the dung pile and some ground up charcoal - to get gunpowder. Even mixing cooking grease with ashes from the fire to get Soap. All examples of Magic at one time.

Lest we forget the ultimate bit of "magic" that most of our modern world is built upon - electricity!

Just my humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Mike Ameling]

Legal perhaps, Ivan, but accepted? I doubt it

You would be surprised at how much "witchcraft" is out there and how "accepted" it is.

Here in the US, various groups of Wiccans have risen enough to get officially recognized as organized religion by our Fed/State governments - for things like tax-exempt status and the right to practice in prisons. Several court cases have already looked at animal sacrifices associated with some of these "religions".

But "accepted" by the government and "accepted" by the general public are different things.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
- who "plays" as a blacksmith with the tools/trappings of those "old gods" on the nether worlds below

 

[Pict]

Personally I'm kind of leery of those MRE heaters you add water to, just ain't right I'm tellin' ya'. Mac

 

[Indoorsout]

Hey Mikey, I get what you'e saying, but in the late 18th century? No way was witchcraft accepted I'm a pagan myself and have never had a problem with acceptance but witchcraft/magic was absolutely taboo even a century ago let alone 2

 

[NatG]

"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

edit: great minds think alike!

 

[BOD]

The earliest written documentation shows the fire piston being "discovered" in the late 1700's during that age of great exploration/voyages. But they were found in several places around the world - all around the same time. The two main places were on some islands in the South Pacific, and in South America (or was it Central America). How long had it existed before then? Unknown.

Hi Mike,

With some others, I have been searching for societies that still use and make the fire piston. Our researches show the earliest written record of the fire compression effect to be in De Litteria Expeditione per Pontificam Ditionem published in Rome 1755.

Could you give us a steer to the stuff about the South Pacific and Central America?

Ash

 

[BOD]

The earliest written documentation shows the fire piston being "discovered" in the late 1700's during that age of great exploration/voyages. But they were found in several places around the world - all around the same time. The two main places were on some islands in the South Pacific, and in South America (or was it Central America). How long had it existed before then? Unknown.

Hi Mike,

With some others, I have been searching for societies that still use and make the fire piston. Our researches show the earliest written record of the fire compression effect to be in De Litteria Expeditione per Pontificam Ditionem published in Rome 1755.

Could you give us a steer to the stuff about the South Pacific and Central America?

Ash

 

[andy_e]

Witchcraft only ceased to be illegal in England in 1951 with the repeal of the Witchcraft Act of 1735. I'm not sure if that law applied to Scotland too or whether it was repealed at the same time.

Edit: BTW That 18th century Act made witch-hunting legal.

 

[Toddy]

But the Church kindly insisted everyone in the country be literate, so the ladies just wrote receipt (recipe) books instead

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Mike Ameling]

Hi Mike,

With some others, I have been searching for societies that still use and make the fire piston. Our researches show the earliest written record of the fire compression effect to be in De Litteria Expeditione per Pontificam Ditionem published in Rome 1755.

Could you give us a steer to the stuff about the South Pacific and Central America?

Ash

Some info is on the one guy's web site www.firepiston.com

And some more can be found in the book The Bryant And May Museum Of Fire-Making Appliances: Catalog of the Exhibits published in 1926. There's also a Supliment that was published in 1929, but it doesn' t have much info. They only show pictures of ... some ... of the collection, but do have descriptions of everything. They note the date of that British patent as 1807, and show a picture of 4 fire pistons.

"... certainly the most extraordinary aboriginal fire-making contrivance ever devised--has been used by the natives of south-eastern Asia and the adjacent East Indian Archipelago, apparently for a long period, though never very commonly." "... The contrivance was patented in Britain in 1807, apparently as a new scientific discovery, and was used here practically to a limited extent, but was in the main a mere scientific toy."

As I recall, there is also some discussion in the Society of Primitive Technology collected books, but mine are out on loan at the moment.

Hope this helps you in your search.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Ivan]

Legal perhaps, Ivan, but accepted? I doubt it

I was joking. Funny how no one objected to me calling witchcraft a religion.

 

[andy_e]

I think we tend a bit more understanding of religious choices over here these days than many of your compatriots do Ivan, then again your nation was founded by a group of religious fanatics too zealous even for us.

As for Witchcraft being a religion, what is currently practiced as Witchcraft is a religion, so why would anyone object

 

[Ivan]

I think we tend a bit more understanding of religious choices over here these days than many of your compatriots do Ivan, then again your nation was founded by a group of religious fanatics too zealous even for us.

As for Witchcraft being a religion, what is currently practiced as Witchcraft is a religion, so why would anyone object

Thanks Andy. If I recall right, the word religion is derived from "to bring together". If that's so then I suppose we could call this bushcraft a religion as well. I am a liberal Humanist involved in ancestor worship myself, near as I can figure. Every religion has its "mysteries". Fire pistons might be ideal for the Wiccans.

 

[John Fenna]

OK - lets get Bushcraft recognised as a Religion - religious obrervance is one accepted reason for carrying an edged tool!
Sorted!