andyn said:
I think its great how everyone has posted their answers on here in a clear and concise format and from what I can see there has been little bickering or arguing over disagreement but good clear discussion and openess towards what i always knew was going to be a difficult and sensitive subject.
The difference with this thread Andy, is that the questions have been asked with courtesy and consideration and that demands respect and tolerance, no matter how sensitive or difficult the issue. You can ask pretty much anything and if it is asked in the right way, it will (or it should) get handled with tolerance and courtesy in return.
If the questions are asked, wrapped in spin and insult, they will almost certainly get handled with intolerance. If you want a decent answer, you gotta ask a decent question. It's a double edged sword. You cant just demand the moderators be more tolerant, while at the same time wrapping those demand in insults (as Adi did), and expect anything other than a curt and dismissive reply. If the question is polite, the answer will be. This thread is an excellent example of how sensitive questions should be asked, you should be commended for it. Well done.
I still belive though that you are kinda skipping around the subject that a lot of negativity is being shown by the moderators to constructive criticism.
Constructive is the key word here. The criticism often isnt very constructive Andy. Do you think Adi's criticism was constructive? Or was it a belligerant attack? You tell me.
I totally understand that this forum is run under Tony's rules and decisons and you guys are here to do his work for him. But if BCUK is going to maximise on what it can offer to its community, when people come forward with concerns over how they are precieving how they are being treated it must surely concern you guys.
Of course it does. The problems are multiple here. First of all, it's time. I have a day off today, and I have decided to spend a big chunk of it addressing your concerns. I dont begrudge that, because they have been aired in such a mature way. But I'm a registered nurse and I often work 50 hour weeks. I also have another webiste to run and a relationship and a life. All need to be considered and I'm sure you can appreciate, I cant often give huge chunks of my time over to addressing issues like this in such a comprehensive way. So, while a more detailed explanation is often merited, time constraints mean that we often cant do anything but give brief answers and be dismissive if people persist with a point. It's not ideal, but untill Tony can pay me £30k a year for moderating this site, all he'll get is the best voluntary contributions I can offer under the circumstances.
So time limts on moderators has an impact on how we handle situations. Often we cant put as much into something as we like. Sometimes we get tired and dont have the patience for it. So yes, sometimes people get less than ideal.
Secondly, a lot depends on how these issues are raised. If they are raised in a manner that is cvonfrontational and abussive, as has happened a lot recently, our tolerance is diminished significantly. We are moderators, but we are not punchbags. If someone insults us, they will get an intolerant reply. It's the basic rules of human interaction and they dont get re-written just because we are on a forum. We insist on courtesy. If people dont show it, then they cannot expect it in return, because we are people first and moderators second.
Thirdly, some of the criticism seems to always come from the same groups. They are the same issues, re-voiced, over and over, in spite of long winded explanations, surrounding commercialism, thier lack of rights to promote thier own ventures and businesses and sour grapes over being banned. Criticism from these quarters, is peurile, childish and to be expected. It is almost always wrapped in insult and deserves nothing more than contempt. It's not in the least constructive and entirely to do with thiose people "wanting more" out of BcUK.
There have been numerous mentionings about under-hand tatics and hidden motives in response to these concerns but I cannot see how you can see it like that, or why you would choose to. Are your feelings of the community here really like stained? (Again rhetorical and not aimed at anyone in particular)
It's a small minority Andy, but a small minority with a loud and angry voice. It shouts the same thing, over and over again and as BogFlogger said, it's boring. It's way, way past rational debate. I'm surprised you cant see it, most others can.
Martyn you said before that BCUK isn't a service and several times raised points that it owes nothing to the community here. Ok fair enough but can I persuade you to see it like this?...BCUK offers a place for people to come and to utilise what it has to offer. If BCUK (The admin), its mods and its members want that to remain and for as many people that visit to enjoy their experience and maybe come back and maybe even help contribute to the running costs of BCUK then surely not only does BCUK and its mod team BUT also the rest of the community need to ensure that they can come forward and offer the best service they can to its members (that includes you mods
, as I think you get a tough time of things sometimes)
Yes there probably are trouble makers on here that want nothing more than to see BCUK's servers turn off and for it to dwindle into nothingness. But personally I wouldn't like to see that day...and so I came forward with a concern. In someways I feel my concern was immediately categorised as "trouble making" and it took a lot of explaining for it to be seen as anything else.
We all have to work at that mate, it's not just the responsibility of the mods to deliver a service, it's the responsibility of the community to use it properly and treat each other with respect - including the mods.
I'm a bit lost though now Andy, I'm not really sure what you main point is. I think we may be running the risk of debating for debatings sake. I know you think the moderators need to have a change of attitude - perhaps that's something we can consider, but it's a little non-specific. Can I ask you for a few specific, short points for us to consider. How would you like our attitudes to change? What exactly do you think is wrong? What do you think we can change to make it better?
I am learning from this, but I need to get to the root of your complaint.