That Chap Evading the Authorities in Northumberland

[Tony]

Lots of conjecture, guessing etc etc. This thread really isn't worth people here getting wound up with each other. I feel for those effected by the situation, I don't really care how they're going to catch him I just wish them the best of luck in doing so. then the families of those out there can relax and not worry something is going to happen and the affects of it.

This thread is obviously something you want to talk about and we've let it stand as it's not breaking any rules but don't turn it into something personal between you or a place to voice your political or other emotive thoughts. We're always going to disagree with each other and some are always going to look down their noses because they think they know better (well, sometimes they do) keep the thread focused, polite and most of all considerate to all the people involved in this issue.

 

[treefrog]

On the subject of using dogs.
General Purpose Police dogs are trained to follow a track, for that they would need a confirmed sighting or starting point. If on finding their subject passive they will stand off and bark, presenting a target for anyone armed. Police firearms dogs will attack a passive (armed) person on command, but again will need a sighting.
Police dogs differ from SARDA dogs who are trained to search a large open area for a person by air scent.

I know my local force, assisting the hunt, use Malinois (Belgian Shepard dogs) The effectiveness of the dogs, once someone is found, can be seen on this training vid from Belgium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbD3qzMcJxA

 

[Ray Britton]

Fizzy.
Yes I knew that, if you are referring to the CRW gang, but then this is not political, and as per my post, police primacy is still in order, so the police are still in control.....It's just how UK law works!

I think I was responding to the fact that some folks use the word SAS to mean just about anything lol

How many have a good knowledge of the SAS both in reg, TA and R forms, the SBS, the SRS and the SFGS plus the other oddities in UKSFG, or what they actually do, or when and where they get deployed.

What does stand out here for me, is how the prison service recommendation was released within twenty four hours. I suspect someone was either totally fed up with being ignored, or wants to avoid any blame (and rightly so) even before a subsequent enquiry starts!

As for the 'armoured cars' that have been shipped over, does anyone remember just how useless these things are lol. What I don't know for sure is whether the local police there have one of the new land rovers for anti terror work (many forces outside of the met do have at least one now).

 

[ScarletPimpernel]

We want the army to shoot him, even though the police still have primacy, so it would be murder (I take it you don't realise it is illegal for regular soldiers to carry fire arms on the streets of England without a cabinet level order (which would be publicly available)

It would be necessary for Cabinet to become involved if the armed forces were to become involved in an IS op within UK, but that level of authority is certainly not required for weapons to be carried on the streets.

There's a long-established system for civilian authorities to seek military assistance, and it's done at Div level. Since the inception of the Civil Contingencies Act it's less likely than before, but it's still available. However, civilian authorities can and do informally request military advice on a regular basis.

You think the SAS are there doing the work........Maybe you forgot they are rather busy at the moment fighting a full scale war!

SF CRW teams maintain a presence in various locations within UK at all times. They are involved in police operations regularly, mostly anti-terrorist. It's as much a part of their duties as war fighting. Maybe you forgot that operational harmony ensures that mil personnel have gaps between operational deployments, and in between ops will undertake training and other duties. You also forget that SF is not just the SAS, but also SBS, SRR, SFSG and other specialist SF sp units. Dir SF maintains a close working relationship with MoJ/Home Office/CivPol, and has assets available to deploy if required. But who's to say that SF would be asked to go in and double-tap this steroidal chav? Maybe the requirement would be SF skills in covert obs. All that said, I doubt that SF would be involved in any numbers if at all. Military assistance can take many forms, such as logistical or signals support.

Op HERRICK is not a full scale war. It's a brigade-level deployment involved in COIN ops - in other words, asymmetric warfare within a defined AOR. It's certainly intense and bloody, but it's not a full scale war.

The police are rightly taking a highly precautionary approach to this matter; I suspect that the last thing they want is to have to slot the ginger lunatic, though that may not be the end game he seeks.

 

[treefrog]

As for the 'armoured cars' that have been shipped over, does anyone remember just how useless these things are lol. What I don't know for sure is whether the local police there have one of the new land rovers for anti terror work (many forces outside of the met do have at least one now).

They are Mitsubishi shogun's with moderate ballistic protection borrowed from PSNI and are being used by unarmed police to carry out their duties during the operation

 

[J4C3]

Moat is less a walter mitty than half the posters in the theard

 

[JonathanD]

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Human nature to speculate, and it is the biggest story of the moment in Blighty.

 

[Retired Member southey]

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[Retired Member southey]

no stops JonathanD, bad skills.

 

[JonathanD]

no stops JonathanD, bad skills.

It's been a long time.

 

[Retired Member southey]

I never learned, kipling was my HF messenger! if you know what kipling was, then you know why I should have learned morse.

 

[JonathanD]

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Agreed, those elite fellows that sported moustaches and mullets, wore green flight jackets and jeans with Timberlands used to refer to us as Walts over the water. We were far more effective and better trained in that area and it was offensive, especially when they came to us for training. But hey-ho, we got along OK after a few days together. Wouldn't let them out together on ops though as they stod out like sore thumbs

 

[Andy2112]

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[JonathanD]

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Walt is short for 'Walter Mitty'. In military terms it refers to those many people claiming they are what they are'nt, or with aspirations to be a soldier. Or soldiers claiming they are SAS or SF when they are not.

Apologies, this is going way off topic now.

 

[Retired Member southey]

I tell you what though, if you ever want ever want to see some one who looks the absolute opposit of what the job is, us pj's, out of work they look as though they live on Bourmouth beach, chatting up mums with there stories of big waves down cornwall somewhere, then when in work, action man made real, there kit is out of this world, and the skills to go with.

 

[korvin karbon]

Hi Korvin.

I note you did not answer my question....But I have another for you now. Where in my post do you gather I assume he is still in the woods?

Accept my apologies. Is it easy avoiding a few hundred searchers, then the answer is no. Are some (not all) of the techniques used easy to learn / common sense to avoid them then yes. Have I any real world experience other than few exercises with the TA while younger then the answer is no. I have been told several stories of avoiding the army in Northern Ireland by a few close protection officers I had to work alongside on UN events, and by them not getting caught I have to assume that they had some merit of truth.

I missed out "are" when asking about the woods, fast brain slow fingers.

Thank goodness some of you are not involved in the search. I will take any of that back if of course you have already killed another human, or have put a 9mm into someone,s kneecaps! But if you haven,t you are coming across as a total walt IMHO.

People expressing how they wish justice should be done, eye for an eye and all that.


So in your opinion what has went wrong in tracking this nutter down? Personally I think he is long gone but I would not be surprised in the slightest if he has someone hostage in their own home.

 

[Wilderbeast]

Withdrawn: No need to blow a fuse

 

[IanM]

Has anyone considered that he just might have royally annoyed his mates who accompanied him to the shootings (and the rest of the bad guys who must by now be very unhappy with the situation) by his extream behavior by killing when he was only going to 'teach a lesson' and they have dropped him in a ditch after laying the red herring of the vehicle (and note) and a tent (and note) then were stopped "walking down the road together".

 

[J4C3]

It's almost clear that the entire thing holds little fact to the story being shown.
Two people caught with firearms arrested for assisting Moat then walk free, please

Anyone with prior training knows exactly what's being presented and what's really going down.


As for the Morse ex royal and pongo back room greenie intel ,both of who left a very , very long time ago

 

[Fizzy]

It's almost clear that the entire thing holds little fact to the story being shown.
Two people caught with firearms arrested for assisting Moat then walk free, please

Anyone with prior training knows exactly what's being presented and what's really going down.

Have they walked free? The latest I heard is that they were due in court in a couple of weeks