Survival/Bushcraft Instructor, would you.....

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lannyman8

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 18, 2009
4,005
3
Dark side of the Moon
thank you all who know me for the kind words, it gives me confidence that i could do such a job and be good at it...thank you all for the helpful words from those who have been there and done it, i hope to make my mind up when im home and have spoken to the wife, i cant do anything until next year, but i can get some courses done when im home.sorry for the delay in my reply but the internet is very very bad..many thanks to all.regards.chris.
 

Scots_Charles_River

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 12, 2006
3,277
41
paddling a loch
www.flickr.com
I get paid for an afternoon a week at my school to do Outdoor Learning which is Kayaking, Climbing, Canoeing April-Oct then we switch to low level walks and Bushcraft. Last week fro example we did shelter building and firelighting with a Kelly Kettle. My full time job is a CDT/Tech Teacher so the practical skills are transferable outdoors. Budgets are tight for schools but you might get some work. Colleges have lots of options for Bushcraft/Forrest Schools type courses but the underlying learning intentions are not FIRELIGHTING but responsibility, team work, learning to take risks, numeracy etc. 'Selling' Bushcraft as a vehicle for other learning is key.

Quals.

If I had the time, money and inclination, I would do the OCN Level 3 Forest School Educator course, as that allows you to get a nationally accredited way of setting up a Forrest School. You could then get a concession to lease/use some woodland form a landowner for your School. I would not buy land. I have Canoe, Kayak, Climbing, Orienteering and First Aid qualifications.

Insurance

I have Public and Indemnity Insurance via work for £10 million.
 

Gray

Full Member
Sep 18, 2008
2,091
10
Scouser living in Salford South UK
I reckon there might be a market for team building/corporate weekends but I hate to think what the overheads would be. Public liability insurance, I'll bet its a fortune. Very best of luck whatever you decide to do, theres probably a few people here wouldn't mind helping out. I'd pitch in with survival training every so often, I've written a training pack which might help if you ever fancy a look.
 

leon-1

Full Member
Most instructors are self employed. If you decide to do it, do a hell of a lot of research first. Self employment is hard work and you'll have to learn about your tax and the things which are and aren't deductable. You'll also need to look at your national insurance.

You'll require an enhanced CRB if dealing with kids or adults with issues. You'll also in all probability require female cover and at least one other instructor to cover you on a legal front. You'll need uptodate first aid certification on first aid at work tailored to working in an outdoor environment.

Even the guys who teach SERE don't just work to the military in the UK, nearly all military survival training is outsourced within UK armed forces nowadays.

The current climate as far as bushcraft and survival schools are concerned within the UK is that we have more than the whole of Canada and the USA / Alaska put together. All are trying to make a living from and working on providing something that nobody else provides. Many schools are activity providers for event organisers and many work with CCF / ACF, local authority and Schools.

The four to five months between November to March can be very scarce as far as work is concerned. You need to make your money in the other 7 months to see you through the "Lean Months".

You need to be willing to work wherever the work takes you as long as you cover your main costs, any profit at all is something.

Always have another string to your bow, guaranteed work cannot be relied upon in the current financial climate as austerity measures have knock on effects.

About 40% of your time is spent teaching / training. 30% of your time will be spent in research and lesson planning. 30% of your time is spent doing admin. You'll work your behind off when teaching and feel knackered for a couple of days after the first courses you run. Always have a wet weather plan or program, especially when dealing with kids when you are out for a couple of days or so.

The various pieces of equipment required to go it on your own will take a while for you to acquire. Finding a site to use can be one of the hardest things and the fees associated with renting a site can be considerable. The site needs to be large enough to accommodate the working area, the accommodation area, the area for admin and sleeping.
 

Scots_Charles_River

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 12, 2006
3,277
41
paddling a loch
www.flickr.com
Forest Schools sessions run year round and all weathers. Getting the right site is key here. I would imagine there is lots of STAG DO type day events simulating SURVIVAL stuff. Remember doing something you 'LOVE' as an actual job may actually spoil your recreational enjoyment of it ! I think if you can survive two winters, as a business, in the Outdoors then you may survive as a viable business.

These FOREST SCHOOL folks are well on the way to a NATIONAL type centre, they provide lots of CPD (expensive). http://www.mindstretchers.co.uk/

Blending different groups with different experiences may be the way ahead, it would certainly be cool to run the odd Expedition abroad, with a small dedicated group.
 

Tiley

Life Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,364
375
60
Gloucestershire
A few years ago, I did the Instructor's Course with John Rhyder at Woodcraft School. It's a year long and involves five days a month living in the woods along with a hefty wedge of work, including research and essays, around the subject in order to prepare your final, assessed portfolio. It was a great year during which I learnt a phenomenal amount about the woods, their management, legal aspects, psychology, craft skills, taxonomy and so on and so forth. I would rate it as the best year of my life.

However, while knowledge is one thing, being able to communicate clearly is the essential if you are ever going to stand up in front of a group and lead a session. If you haven't got that, then instructing probably isn't for you. Be honest in your appraisal of your abilities here: 'performing' to a group of friends is not the same as a group of people whom you've only met that morning. Can you do it?

If "yes", then I would suggest you get qualified now. Yes, things are quiet at the moment but this is more to do with the ongoing recession than any 'bubble' 'bursting'. In doing your qualification now - and it is important from an insurance, CRB and general credibility point of view - you will have prepared yourself for when things do improve slightly and potential customers start thinking of bushcraft once more.

There's then the argument about whether to set up on your own. I would suggest not. If you can find work with one of the more established outfits, it will be another huge learning experience for you but this time from the business/commercial side rather than the bushcraft and instruction one. Working for someone else, even on a part-time basis, will really help you to understand what is required to run your own venture efficiently. An obvious example is, of course, Paul Kirtley.

The main challenge is funding your venture. As has been mentioned already, you need to sit down and work out what you and your family (the most important element in your life - without exception) need to live in relative comfort. You might find that you have to keep on at your normal job and do some freelance bushcraft work as a result of this. If you do decide to plunge in and start your own business, make very sure that you factor in some time off to do the office chores and, crucially, recharge your own batteries: it is hard work with a lot of preparation and clearing up required at both ends of every course.

Personally, having 'qualified' (i.e. got the bit of paper...), I work as a freelance instructor, keeping my everyday job as a teacher. It's not everything that I would desire but it does mean that I get a pleasing amount of time in the woods during the holidays (the advantage of being a teacher, I suppose...) and I am still able to put bread on the table for my family.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
 

Artzi

Member
Oct 31, 2010
16
0
Finland
As the title said, would you become a Bushcraft / Survival instructor and why? also would you become an instructor for another person or start your own company.

if you where to do it how would you do it and where would you start up etc.

your thoughts and opinions would be most helpful.

regards.

chris.

Hi Chris,

As studying in 2 topic related training programs at the moment to be wilderness guide and also certified survival instructor in near future I guess I should say Yes ... ;) ... but the reality is what it is :( ... you can't really make your living just with bushcraft stuff these days unfortunately ... but let's hope that guys like you and me will be needed someday! :fishing:
 

greenwood

Forager
Jan 2, 2012
213
0
Wild Wiltshire
Just in my opinion and trying to think out side the box hope this helps:

Why not start on a part time bases on your off time, offering a very cheap affordable coarse to get off the ground and of which I believe would get lots of attention in this strapped for cash time, this would then not only give you the "feel" for it in the aspect of meeting/greeting and teaching but honing your coarse with the questions and tribulations you may experience.

you may not get rich, and will find that most weekends are taken up, and this may be a problem with "she who needs to be obeyed" indoors, family/work balance
Look into possible using a local wood for some alternative payment such as helping out the owner with any skills you may have, as its only going to be a part time thing for now.

Can you use any one else's skills to encourage people to you such as rock climbing/caving, are there any local resources like a river of which you can utilize on for say a fishing coarse with out a rod? What would people like in a coarse, could post a poll for that idea i.e fire lighting,shelters,foraging.

How are you going to attract people to you? advertising can be expensive, contact any local clubs, cards in windows

Are there any other outdoor clubs of which some sort of survival coarse may come in handy, even how to pack a rucksack for fist time campers, one hour coarse for £5 per person... 5 x people =£25

May even try this my self LOL
 

Paul K

Tenderfoot
Apr 29, 2003
75
1
In the woods
Hi Niels, that's certainly all true but if you really want to do it, you'll make it work for you. It wasn't meant to be a negative message, only a realistic one. I receive many emails asking "how?". There's no easy way and everyone takes their own path to it. BUT, there's no point trading security for unhappiness.
 

Niels

Full Member
Mar 28, 2011
2,582
3
26
Netherlands
Hi Niels, that's certainly all true but if you really want to do it, you'll make it work for you. It wasn't meant to be a negative message, only a realistic one. I receive many emails asking "how?". There's no easy way and everyone takes their own path to it. BUT, there's no point trading security for unhappiness.

Thanks for that. I still think about being a bushcraft instructor someday, and what you said I think made me have a more realistic (and slightly less idealised) idea of the job. However the idea still appeals to me much more strongly than any university education ever will. When I finish school, I will try internship at a bushcraft school if I can:)
 

Paul K

Tenderfoot
Apr 29, 2003
75
1
In the woods
Hi everyone,

Interesting thread and thanks for the mention in your clearly communicated post :)

To reply to Tiley and the thread in general...

I completely concur with what Tiley is saying here but to add my t'penneth: Yes, it's a long and winding road (particularly at the moment). Success doesn't come overnight. I made my first moves towards making bushcraft instruction my career 12 years ago. I was already an avid and experienced outdoors person (lots of solo hiking, backpacking, wild camping and mountain biking).

Being a good outdoors leader, with all that entails doesn't happen overnight. It can't. You need experience of 1/ your own time outdoors (which many on this forum have) and 2/ time looking after students/customers/clients. The latter is best built up as an assistant leader, working with someone else. You get at least three benefits - building your own experience without biting off more than you can chew while at the same time learning from more experienced colleagues, as well as learning the logistics of how to run courses/experiences/trips well.

And that's before you even touch the business side of things.

If you are going to strike out on your own and you want it to put food on the table, you have to run the venture as a business. Business has become a bit of a dirty word in recent years but I'm not talking about super-normal profits and fat-cats, I'm just talking about making ends meet and lasting more than 18 months. If you don't cover your costs, any venture becomes a money pit. Once you (and other people) are reliant on that business for their living, you have to make commercial decisions. You have a responsibility to do so.

Running a small business is largely an exercise in survival.

The risk of starting a business is high. Many, many small businesses fail within their first three years (figures vary but in the UK, Canada and the US, it's recorded as high as 75-80%).

Working for another outfit as an assistant instructor won't necessarily give you much insight into how the business is run, particularly from a financial, admin or advertising perspective but it will give you more than just starting from scratch.

You may wish to model what I have done with my company but bear in mind that my trajectory on this path has its origins back in the 1990s and, actually if I'm honest, goes right back to my childhood interests.

I did study hard at school (including business studies and economics). I also did a maths degree which ultimately led me into a career in business after I left university. As well as sharpening my business acumen, presentation skills and confidence in front of some seriously weighty people, this also gave me an understanding of accounts, marketing, finance, using spreadsheets, writing business communications and numerous other related skills.

So, when I was working part-time for Woodlore as a course assistant back in 2003-2005, they became aware of the fact I had other skills in addition to my enthusiasm for bushcraft skills and what I could do outdoors. This is what led me on to being offered a full-time job as Course Director. It was the combination of outdoors and commercial skills that I had.

To take that job I accepted an 80% pay cut.

Yes, you read that right.

That is the sacrifice I made just to take a job at someone else's outfit.

When I started Frontier, I didn't pay myself for over a year. I lived off savings.

Also, for many years I studied martial arts and eventually became an instructor, running my own Ju Jitsu club. This increased my confidence in teaching and presenting massively. In fact when I made presentations at work, people commented on how good I was and where I'd received my presentation skills training. The answer was in the dojo.

Martial arts also gave me a great grounding in teaching physical skills. I apply this learning directly every time I'm working with someone on their bushcraft skills, particularly skills for which they find the physical coordination hard at first, such as bow-drill.

I'm not saying that you need all - or even any - of these skills and experiences to succeed. Everyone's life experience is different.

But I've had to draw on pretty much every ounce of my varied experience to make my business work. And every day you have to get up and keep the wheels moving.

If you have the opportunity to work on some bushcraft courses - absolutely take it. It's a wonderful feeling helping others achieve and, as the old saying goes "If you want to learn something well, teach it.".

Starting your own business on the other hand is not for the faint-hearted. Or at least, starting a business that is going to succeed is not for the faint-hearted. Anyone can start a business that fails.

I would separate these two decisions - working in bushcraft/survival/outdoor education and starting a business - and be completely objective about your chances of success in each.

Oh, and one other piece of advice - however much money you think you'll need to get your business started. Triple it. At least.

Good luck!

Paul
 

lannyman8

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 18, 2009
4,005
3
Dark side of the Moon
blimey gents, lots of info to think about and very sound realistic advise being given out, which i appreciate i might not want to hear and in all honesty you probably dont want to give out as its going to mean competition for you potentially.

again i am still away and my work load has tripled so will catch up again soon ish.

many thanks to all...

chris.
 

maddave

Full Member
Jan 2, 2004
4,177
39
Manchester UK
Listen and absorb what Paul has said. He's "walking the walk" and it's his living. Some of us do it for fun, and others like myself do it as a "facet" of our jobs. Think deep and hard and choose your own path.... This video is worth a watch too

[video=youtube;2L_cGjQSR80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L_cGjQSR80[/video]
 

joe o

Member
Feb 14, 2011
29
0
Wiltshire
Echoing some of what has already been said, don't be in a rush to do this. An apprenticeship of sorts should really be the only route into teaching and doing the subject justice. An apprenticeship doesn't necessarily mean attaching yourself to another existing set up. If you already have elements of the skill set required (from looking at your other posts and employment I would imagine you can present a lesson, lead a group outdoors, look after yourself and others in the field for an extended period) and can afford the outlay on group kit, land rent, insurance and course costs without expecting to recoup your investment straight away then organising courses for friends and family, friends of friends can help build experience. Of course, this means having to work at another job to put food on the table but at least you’ll be able to develop your teaching style, build a reputation and develop your business model without the added pressure of the inevitable financial short comings of a fledgling business.

On the other hand, if you can attach yourself to an existing set up you’ll be catapulted right to the sharp end, getting all the work experience you need and should be able to make a few mistakes in an environment where you have support and the buck doesn’t stop with you. BUT...it’s important to note that despite the five billion bushcraft schools currently operating in the UK, a mere handful of them are in a position to be able to offer regular paid work and even then, it’ll only come after a period of volunteering your services and proving your worth. You’ll still need that full time/ well paid part time job in the background to pay the bills.

In my own experience, an apprenticeship style approach with a slow and steady build up of REAL experience can compensate for a lack of start up investment. I’m not saying that’s the easy route (because it isn’t) but if you haven’t got thousands of pounds tucked away for starting a business then your only real asset could be that you know your subject matter inside out and offer a high quality product straight from the outset. Repeat custom and word of mouth (the old fashioned way) can then bring in business quicker than an expensive marketing campaign. In that situation, if you were going to invest money anywhere my advice would be to put it aside for working capital, a lack of which is the most common killer of a small business.

I know it seems you’re getting advice from the competition here but in my opinion, most full time set ups don’t have a problem with competition if that competition has earned the right to be there. Many of those whom I should consider competition, I actually consider to be colleagues. We help each other out, share information and respect each others boundaries. People taking short cuts, running before they can walk, claiming abilities and business profiles they can’t possibly have only really succeed in watering down the very industry they’re so desperate to be a part of. The path taken should definitely be a long and winding one to earn your wings.

Above all, an apprentice style approach will allow you to gradually become familiar with the industry as it is today. There are a hell of a lot of Emperors new clothes out there. Explore the market from the inside and come up with a unique selling point that’ll help you stand out from the crowd – a new direction or interesting approach (this could even just be your own personality or the way you teach). This is one advantage of tinkering around on the periphery for a good while. You might only get one crack at this and really won’t want to make a rushed, ill informed decision.

Hope that helps

Joe O’Leary
 

Skaukraft

Settler
Apr 8, 2012
539
4
Norway
If I were you, and I was deterimned to do something bushcrafty-ish for a living I would forget about the bushcraft/survival-instructor thing. From what I can see on this forum there are literally dozens of them trotting around in the woods of england.
I would try to find a niche, something that can be obtained only through you and your company.

Easier said than done, I know. But he who dares, wins.
 

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