Special Permission

  • Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.

Atellus

Member
Jul 15, 2007
45
1
Warrington, Cheshire
Hello. I've posted here once or twice before, but am not a regular. Nevertheless, I thought I might suggest a topic for discussion.

I've been watching a few Ray Mears repeats on cable recently. Now and then, something jars, whether it's the three or four wagon-loads of modern kitchen wear he took into the forest to cook like a prehistoric aboriginal in the Wildfood series, or as it is today, the need for special permission, which is a fairly common occurrence throughout his programmes.

Today he went into a hunting reserve that is closed most of the year, but the specifics don't matter. He's been to other places that are never open to the public under any circumstances. These parts of the programmes are usually heralded by mention of needing "special permission."

Now, surely this is not the point? Surely the principle goal of the work of people like Ray Mears is to widen participation by showing what you, as an individual, can do to experience the world from a completely new perspective through the skills of survival granted by bushcraft.

If, however, Ray is busy doing this sort of thing in idyllic surroundings on reserved or private lands, and that he has gone to these locations because these are the only places where he can find the needed natural resources in sufficient abundance in order to practice these skills convincingly, then this is not educational, it's merely informative in the sense of any other documentary. The message is not "this is what you can do." The message becomes "this is what you can do if you're Ray Mears and you're making a TV programme."

Have I grasped the wrong end of the pointy stick?
 
But almost all land is in private ownership or else owned by large organisations. Good for Ray for getting off his behind and going out and asking for permission. the fact that he is a TV celeb may help, but then again, just because WE all know who he is doesn't mean that everyone does. I wonder how many places said NO to him before he found some that said yes.
 

durulz

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 9, 2008
1,755
1
Elsewhere
Ooo...just you be careful now!
Criticising Ray is a very risky business. I did it once and received all kinds of vitriol - those fanboys can be a potent and mad bunch!
Put your steel helmet on and get your head down.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,998
4,650
S. Lanarkshire
Can you imagine the flak he'd get if he didn't make it clear that he had asked permission ?

He's supposed to be demonstrating best practice, this is just part of it.

I don't think it any different than the rules of this site saying that it cannot condone or encourage illegal activity.

cheers,
Toddy
 

markheolddu

Settler
Sep 10, 2006
590
0
52
Llanelli
I think the thing here is that there are great locations out there but you have to find them. Ray and some of the members here have gone out and found locations and then asked. Farmers are not unresonable people but use your head when asking, the worst that can happen is beening told no.
Or go to one of the meetups here, I have been to some lovely places thanks to the hard work of the members here ( thanks all) .

Mark
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
He has researchers at is disposal, but they don't just research for his tv programmes but all the tv programmes made by their station (in this case, the BBC). I was watching that fellah who wanted to be a crofter for six months and recognised the bay immediately although I have never been there. Ray and the Professor collected shell fish there in their wild food series, I recognised the bay immediately, although had to check to be completely sure. No doubt, somebody who researched up there for Wild food also thought it would be a good place for other shows.

Any shooting lodge up in Scotland would surely be happy to have a celebrity visit them, it's good advertising for them. people in this hobby will part with 500 quid for a knife with Rays' name on it, they may go and visit the same estates Ray uses too. It's all good business.

It is a shame the ordinary man cannot do the same thing that a man with a camera crew and loads of money can do, but that is the way it has been for centuries. Find yourself a little nook out in the wilds and ignore every body else. You may not be able to shoot a deer and hang it from a tree and cook it over several days bit by bit in a pit oven, but you can do similar things if you scale it down a bit.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
53
Glasgow, Scotland
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick.

If the programme said 'Well, we would show you this interesting and educational technique but we can't because we couldn't get permission' you'd be criticising the land owner.

This is a matter of control of limited resources. Allowing an educational programme to be made is a bit different from allowing everyone to go down there and use up plants and scarce resources. Where do you draw the line?

Do you remember programmes by Mears and Hiddins in Arnhemland, Australia? Outsiders cannot go there without special permission but I am glad they did get it so they could make these excellent episodes.

Yes, it may seem unfair at first but, if you think about it, it makes sense. Programme makers can allow us all to see things that we would not otherwise have access to. I'd rather have it like that than a free-for-all with anyone able to go and trash beautiful places.
 

Joonsy

Native
Jul 24, 2008
1,483
3
UK
The message is not "this is what you can do." The message becomes "this is what you can do if you're Ray Mears and you're making a TV programme."

I remember one programme when he was spearing trout from the river (think it may have been Ardeche gorge) and he said he needed ''special permission'' for that as well, the message is clearly ''watch but don't touch'', the programme is informative in that it shows how celebrity status opens doors and keeps them closed for Joe Bloggs.
 
Jul 26, 2009
353
0
My Front Room
I like Ray. Never met the fella but he has shown me a lot I have adapted for my own use. I've also met in person many people who have taught me things on their on patch of turf as it were where Ray has never been.

Learn something new every day, if it enhances your skills or your life or is just interesting, be happy.
 

Mikey P

Full Member
Nov 22, 2003
2,257
12
53
Glasgow, Scotland
I remember one programme when he was spearing trout from the river (think it may have been Ardeche gorge) and he said he needed ''special permission'' for that as well, the message is clearly ''watch but don't touch'', the programme is informative in that it shows how celebrity status opens doors and keeps them closed for Joe Bloggs.

I completely disagree. The programmes are made for two reasons:

a. To make money. It's a business.
b. To allow people to see things that they would not ordinarily see, and to learn something in the process.

The point is that certain areas have to be protected so that everyone does not descend upon them and strip them of natural resources.

I have seen the argument that serious bushcrafters would not make a difference but, again, that is not true. You would have to operate a permit system and that would exclude those without a permit (which is kind of how this thread started).

How would the permit system operate? Based on first-come, first-served? An auction? Would you have to pay for it? The latter immediately disadvantages those without disposable income.

I'm all in favour of restricted areas - everytime I go walking and I see abuse of the natural environment, I am thankful that there are areas where hunting/fishing/foraging are strictly controlled. The flipside would be a free-for-all.

The fact that Ray Mears et al are occasionally allowed to do these things, so that we can see them, should be celebrated. Not criticised.

I would expect that people like Ray Mears and other serious programme makers don't see that being allowed to do something the rest of us can't as 'two fingers in the face' of the general population. 'Wild Food' in particular was based around research and education - see the book - and not on being able to go on holiday in a restricted area.

I understand the frustration, and I agree with Spamel's point that 'This is the way it always has been' but I feel that the reasons are different. Unfortunately, as a a species, we have done so much destruction that we need to be protected from ourselves.
 

Asa Samuel

Native
May 6, 2009
1,450
1
St Austell.
You do realise of course that "special permission" is just going to whoever owns the land and going "Can I do this?" and they say "Yes". You don't have to be a celebrity. I asked a few people around here if I go go on their land to practise bushcraft, one place said no because of their insurance and shooting activities and a local farmer said yes. So I have "Special permission" to go on his land but I'm just a 16 year old kid, not Ray Mears.

I think you are just getting a bit dazzled by the "special" bit. If he'd said "permission" this thread wouldn't be here.
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Also, with regards to spear fishing, some might say it is more productive then normal line fishing. If everybody learnt this skill and used it, the rivers would be empty in no time. Plus, once speared there isn't much option to put the fish back! :lmao:

This is the price we pay for living in a "civilised" society! :bluThinki
 

Peter_t

Native
Oct 13, 2007
1,353
2
East Sussex
i think some of you are missing the point.
most of the places he went where not just privately owed land but where sights of special scientific interest (SSSI) or conservation areas. i know from work that if you wish to cut down or even just prune a tree inside one of these areas you not only have to ask the local cancel but also have to put up notices of your plans. you must give 6 weeks where people can object and possibly stop your plans going ahead.

its not a case of just asking if you can dig up some roots.

Pete
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
i think some of you are missing the point.
most of the places he went where not just privately owed land but where sights of special scientific interest (SSSI) or conservation areas. i know from work that if you wish to cut down or even just prune a tree inside one of these areas you not only have to ask the local cancel but also have to put up notices of your plans. you must give 6 weeks where people can object and possibly stop your plans going ahead.

its not a case of just asking if you can dig up some roots.

Pete

But he had Special Permission! :lmao:
 

smoggy

Forager
Mar 24, 2009
244
0
North East England
It is also worth noting that the programes usually cover a tale of "survival" in the areas he visits.........the air crew in arnemland and on the namibian coast.........or the german tourists tragedy!

It's not just doing something in a "special" place, it is doing it in a specific place, and providing the viewer with an experience they would likely as not never get the chance to experience. You'd soon be bored if he made every program of every series in the New Forest, and the same applies to all other TV progs.

So yes you are missing the piont.

Smoggy
 

BCUK Shop

We have a a number of knives, T-Shirts and other items for sale.

SHOP HERE