Sharpening stones?

[LadySmyth]

Hi all I need some advice regards these sharpening/honing "stones" please...

They were my dad's stones and i want to use them but don't remember what exactly they are as they've not been used in 30 years or so, and not by me but my dad... I need to know which stone (if they are stone... some feel like resin), to use, when, for which blades and how... Oil? Water? I have a couple of cheap stainless steel knives which i use for eating and cooking, and a couple of cheap but good carbon steel mora knives which I've been using for carving etc...

Gonna try post pics so please bear with me... (not all are in their orig packaging)

8inch "rusty" rectangular block

6inch "resin" rectangle block

4inch "resin" wedge

4.5 inch wedge

6inch wedge

4.5 inch wedge

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[MartiniDave]

Hi,

It looks like you've got pretty much all you need right there. I'm hazarding a guess that they are all oil stones. I tend to use cheap Tesco baby oil on my coarser oils stones, and 3-in-1 or WD40 on the finer ones.
Start coarse and progress to the finer followed by some stropping.
If you go on you-tube there are lots of videos, ignore most and check out the ones by Mors Kochanski, Ray Mears, Ben Orford etc.

Good luck with it and enjoy it.

Dave

PS - I forgot to say they are all good quality stones, probably better than newer ones, and actually quite valuable.

 

[dwardo]

Give them a good sniff and see if they have been oiled or not. I would tend to lean towards assuming they are waterstones until you are proven wrong. Once you oil them up there is no going back.

 

[punkrockcaveman]

I'd say soak them in water if you can, but if they have had oil on, you will have to stick with oil. You should be able to tell as water will bead off if they have had oil on. Lovely set of stones btw!

 

[mrcharly]

I think they are all oilstones. The ones labelled 'Carborundum' are definitely oilstones. You can actually use neat washing up liquid on them instead of oil (rinse it off afterwards and definitely keep them away from frost, let them dry out). Oil is better though.

If I were you I would use oil, keep a rag for wiping them clean after use. They look well looked-after.

 

[crosslandkelly]

The smaller stones are slipstones, used for gouges and the like. I would say they are all oil stones. Put them one at a time into a tub of clean water for a few minutes, to see if you get a film of water on the surface of the water. That will tell you for sure.

 

[C_Claycomb]

They are all oil stones.

The Superfine 201A stones could be used with water when new, but the deposits, the type of box and the origin all suggest strongly that this one was only ever used with oil. Using water on stones meant for oil, in my experience, does not work all that well. They tend to either clog/glaze in the fine grits, or be too aggressive in the coarser grits. Yes, once a new stone is oiled there is no going back, but these are not new stones (only the last carborundum slip stone wedge looks like it may, possibly, have always been used dry). I haven't ever tried using washing up liquid instead of oil, I might try it, but for these I think I would stick to oil.

The "resin" stones look like they are Hard Arkansas stones. I have two stones that look just like them in colour and clarity. I have tried using water on the new Arkansas stones I bought, was not all that impressed when comparing them to water lubricated ceramic or my grandfather's old Arkansas with oil, then took the plunge and used oil on the new stones. What a difference! Much better!!

Yup, wedges are slip stones, even says so on one of them. You can use them for knives, as field sharpeners.

There is a brief mention of the Superfine 201A here:
http://theshavingroom.co.uk/community/index.php?threads/carborundum-201a-superfine-hone.24742/

As for order, well, unless someone here has definitive data from of old that shows the comparison in numbering/grit between the grey Silicon Carbide Carborundum and orange Aluminium Oxide "India" stones, it might simply be easiest to try them out and see which is best for what stage. I would start with the big India stone, then the white Superfine, then the Arkansas as a safe bet for Medium, Fine and Extra Fine.

The India slip stone is labelled "Medium" and you can find plenty of info on the web about that grit. The Arkansas stone is probably the finest there, mine give finishes between 1000 and 4000grit. I am not so sure where the "fine" silicon carbide will come, whether it will be finer than the India or not. Most of the people playing with the old stones seem to be the straight razor enthusiasts, but most of those lists, like this one http://www.tomonagura.com/synthetic...dum-razor-stones/carborundum-razor-hone-info/ don't list the numbers printed on your stones.

As said, nice stones.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Just a thought on oils. 3in1 is probably the first choice but long term it does have a disadvantage on the more porous silicon carbide stones. 3-in-1 gets gummy over time, that is why it isn't used for lubricating fine machinery, like guns or sewing machines. My grandfather's old double sided Carborundum stone really needs a good soak in petrol or something. When fresh oiled it works well, but it quickly dries and gets gunky, and without fresh oil to lift the particles off the surface it glazes. Not a problem on the harder stones, the old India stone I have is a little like that, but the Arkansas does not soak up the oil so no problem just wiping off when done.

 

[NoName]

very cool vintage packages!
carborundun were the first hard synthetic stones !

more info about stones:

http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info 20m/grinding_and_honing_part_1.pdf

http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info 20m/grinding_and_honing_part_2.pdf

http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info 20m/grinding_and_honing_part_3.pdf

http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info 20m/grinding_and_honing_part_4_belgian_whetstones.pdf

 

[LadySmyth]

Thanks so much everyone! Lots of teapot useful info to digest. I'm assuming that i can use them on any of my metal edges that need sharpening then (stainless steel and carbon steel)?

And one more thing... The largest (and coarsest) block looks rather rusty. Should i use sand paper and a square block to clean it up or is that just normal? Actually, do any sharpening stones need any sort of cleaning/maintenance? Will take a look at all those links now. Thanks again 👍

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[Janne]

They look rusty because the trapped grains of steel are rusting.
If you start using oil or water, they should eventually clean off, if that does not happen aready with the first cleaning ( before you start using them).

Yes, all steels can be used on them, both stainless and carbon.
Yes, all stones need to be maintained.
I find oil to be more messy than water, but the stones look cleaner after cleaning. Seems the oil 'lifts up' the steel particles. Not sure how though....
I have one Japanese natural stone that needs water, and it is a pain to use it.

You are very lucky to have such a wonderful set of stones!!

 

[Robson Valley]

Did you notice the wooden "cage" for one of the stones? That holds the mess. Water stones in a cage and a squirt bottle make no mess.
Mine are 3-sided, the big C-clamp that secures the cage to the work bench is also the 4th side to keep the stone stationary.

Check the stones with a good straight edge against a bright light.
Most old stone have a beer-belly shape unless the owner has been meticulous with dressing.

I have a bunch of stones. Don't use them. Switched to 3M automotive fine finishing sandpapers taped to a flat stone base.
Always fresh, always flat, wet or dry. For carving, much more economical.

 

[Leshy]

Very good point that RV makes there with the straight edge... Keeping those stones true and flat is a must if you want an even edge on your tools ..👍👍

Lovely stones by the way !
That's all you'll ever need

 

[mrcharly]

Don't use sandpaper on them. Coarse grades of sandpaper will 'spoil' the stones (IMO), because you run the risk of trapping coarse grains of grit from the paper in the stone and making the the stone 'scratchier' than its real grade. You can use finer grades of sandpaper but it will be a long job.

If you want to clean an oilstone up, scrub it with a stiff-bristled brush and either oil or soap and water. If you use soap and water you have to let it dry out very thoroughly afterwards.
Just using oil is fine though.

 

[robevs73]

Pretty sure that carborundum stones are water stones, the darker rust colored stones are oil stones.

 

[NoName]

Hi!
Indeed carborundum with water.
Cleaning stones is explained in the pdf links I posted earlier. Very important.

Stones need to be flat. After flattening with coatse grit one can revive then with fine grit sandpaper.

 

[C_Claycomb]

My 320, 800 and particularly 1000 grit water stones which I have regularly flattened on 120 and 220 grit paper have never given me problems with trapping grit so that I would notice. I didn't arrive at that method myself, but after talking to fine wood workers who used water stones for maintaining planes and chisels, which are far more demanding of flatness than knives.

Good wet and dry paper works well for sharpening, but it is harder to find the good stuff now in the UK than it used to be. Used to be able to get good paper in Halfords, but not for quite a few years now.

Is the large block rusty because it has steel particles rusting (very possible) or because the base stone is rust colour and there are loose particles of stone coming off?

 

[Arya]

Lucky you, inherenting these stones!


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[MartiniDave]

I find that a stone has to be a very long way from flat to make all that much difference on a knife.
Some of the very old butcher's stones I have are really deeply dished at both ends, great for convex edges.

 

[Janne]

The japanese stone I foolishly bought does not have a cage, it is a natural piece of stone that has been flattened.
I used it resting on a cloth in the kitchen, to avoid messing up the floor and scratching the kitchen surface.