Scottish air gun licence

[Toddy]

No, there isn't a massive airgun problem in Scotland; there are problems with airguns though, and in an urbanised society there is a perception/determination that it's time to licence all firearms.

That's it really; and it's happening.

As for England following along ? watch this space.
Those who are arguing agin it aren't doing so effectively, and they don't want to hear that. They're still under the illusion that their arguments (see cars/bikes/baseball bats ) will sway opinion.
Opinion says guns are dangerous; we all know that it's the intent of the gun user that decides how dangerous the gun might be or not.....so licencing the guns to only those users who somehow or other pass muster becomes the next step. This step seems very, very rational, and it's reinforced every single time some cretin behaves badly/stupidly/murderously with a gun.
It doesn't even need to be here; any gun crime event reported by the media reinforces the belief that gun ownership needs to be controlled.

Maybe that's why the NRA are so vociferous, but while it reinforces the opinions of the gun owners, and entrenches their limited arguments, it totally ignores the reassurances that are actually necessary for a worried society. In our society, where gun ownership is not widespread, is not common, those NRA type argument are actually a huge negative to those people.

I repeat, I am not agin guns, I am agin numpties having ownership/access to guns.
Not one argument posted here has persuaded me otherwise......how the hang do you expect to change the majority opinion when most folks are agin gun ownership ?

If licencing reassures those people that there is some control; get on board folks, work with it, make it effective and stop bleating about bikes/cars/chisels/baseball bats
Cut out those who would/do abuse with guns.

M

 

[bushwacker bob]

At least the population of Independent Scotland will be more controllable with less civil liberties.

 

[Nomad]

Said it at the start - every point on this thread comes back to hopolophobia - think about it. Whether the subject is guns, knives, cars, drugs, crime etc etc . Addressing the symptom not the cause is usually a poor approach.

The cause will never be addressed unless there is a wholesale change in the political and social structure of society. What, short of that, can be done to eliminate things like Easterhouse junkie losers that think they're big men because they've got airguns, while retaining our libertarian system and attitudes?

It can't be done. There will always be wrong 'uns. There will always be the alienated and dispossessed.

Again...

Why do we have driving licences? Firearms and shotgun certificates? If airguns should be unlicensed, what about those?

 

[FGYT]

Again...

Why do we have driving licences? Firearms and shotgun certificates?
If airguns should be unlicensed, what about those?

same reason as Bicycles
and knives dont

 

[FGYT]

No, there isn't a massive airgun problem in Scotland; there are problems with airguns though, and in an urbanised society there is a perception/determination that it's time to licence all firearms.

That's it really; and it's happening.

As for England following along ? watch this space.
Those who are arguing agin it aren't doing so effectively, and they don't want to hear that. They're still under the illusion that their arguments (see cars/bikes/baseball bats ) will sway opinion.
Opinion says guns are dangerous; we all know that it's the intent of the gun user that decides how dangerous the gun might be or not.....so licencing the guns to only those users who somehow or other pass muster becomes the next step. This step seems very, very rational, and it's reinforced every single time some cretin behaves badly/stupidly/murderously with a gun.
It doesn't even need to be here; any gun crime event reported by the media reinforces the belief that gun ownership needs to be controlled.

Maybe that's why the NRA are so vociferous, but while it reinforces the opinions of the gun owners, and entrenches their limited arguments, it totally ignores the reassurances that are actually necessary for a worried society. In our society, where gun ownership is not widespread, is not common, those NRA type argument are actually a huge negative to those people.

I repeat, I am not agin guns, I am agin numpties having ownership/access to guns.
Not one argument posted here has persuaded me otherwise......how the hang do you expect to change the majority opinion when most folks are agin gun ownership ?

If licencing reassures those people that there is some control; get on board folks, work with it, make it effective and stop bleating about bikes/cars/chisels/baseball bats
Cut out those who would/do abuse with guns.

M

I agree on that we are in a losing battle and pretty much no way to actually change or do anything about it regardless of the truth or Fact

there are reasons i would accept a general airgun licence (not bolting them into the current FAC a seperat differnt licence like but again different to shotguns) but it would be swings and roundabouts once ive proved and been checked to be a better citizen I would like better service and rights to air guns and guns in general

ATB

Duncan

 

[Toddy]

See your post 124......that's exactly why you'll not change anyone's opinion, why public majority just think the shooters are totally out to lunch and not listening to folks concerns.

M

 

[British Red]

Toddy - can youn site the survey please that showed the majority are in favour of airgun licensing?

You keep saying it is so, but I have seen no evidence other than your own vociferous claims. The Scottish governments consultation indicates that it is simply not true.

 

[sandbender]

At least the population of Independent Scotland will be more controllable with less civil liberties.

Yes, historically we have always been quite an easy people to control.

 

[Toddy]

BR, this site is not the majority who support the licencing....the Scottish people are. The Scottish Government has already said that this will happen. Out of the over 5million population, a tiny percentage complained agin it, and they weren't all resident in Scotland.

You want to canvas the 5,000,000 ? you go right ahead

Funny how there's been no response to my comment about English people also wanting licences for airguns.....as I said, watch this space

M

 

[British Red]

I don't believe the Scottish people have been asked Mary - in any way other than the consultation so I don't believe there is any objective backing for your assertion that the majority want it.

As for "watch this space" - I would argue

The majority of air rifle users are responsible (as are the majority of knife users)
Air rifles kill less than one person a year (knives kill hundreds)
Most people can get by without using an air rifle (and most people can get by without carrying a knife outside the house)

Carry a knife - go to jail

Watch this space indeed

 

[Toddy]

Hugh, all of those pushing for the NO, and mind there are supposed to be 500,000 airguns in Scotland....and they couldn't even muster 100,000 signatures on their petitions, in total !

They couldn't even get 50,000....and that's even with folks allowed to 'with hold address'. Seems even folks with airguns can't be bothered to protest the proposed licence.

We have two airguns, it's not bothering us. My neighbour has three, it's not bothering him or his son. Another has two shotguns and a rifle and an air pistol, and he says he's quite glad, because then when the police inspect it's all sorted with no fuss or bother.
My brother is raging angry at the whole idea, but then he believes the NRA is a good idea and so is the National Front and the anti anything that isn't red white and blue, etc.,
I have heard every argument going on the topic

Another neighbour, who has no guns, but has a young grandson, doesn't want the licencing, since he'll have to go through it later on when he buys his grandson an air rifle, but if it's the law, fine, it's the law, maybe the amnesty will destroy a lot of the crap airguns.
My friendly neighbourhood poacher says airguns are more bother than they're worth, and he's selling his pdq and will sell ours too if we want. He knows a man who shoots in Cumbria who's happy to sell them on.

I think the phrase, "no' bothering us", kind of sums it up.

M

 

[Toddy]

Carry a Knife Go to Jail.....can we keep that to another thread please ?

Personally, I dislike the man as a politician, but his stance has widespread approval in an area which has become the murder capital of Europe.....simply because of the use of a blade as a weapon.

I've already said my sons are praying there's still a police amnesty in force when I pop my clogs

Airguns; licences; focus on that please.

M

 

[FGYT]

Funny how there's been no response to my comment about English people also wanting licences for airguns.....as I said, watch this space

M

even the police in UK don't want to see air guns licences in England there are and estimated 12million ish finger in air guess as licencing that would bring the entire UK police force to its knees for a very long time in paperwork. (many years)

 

[British Red]

Carry a Knife Go to Jail.....can we keep that to another thread please ?

Personally, I dislike the man as a politician, but his stance has widespread approval in an area which has become the murder capital of Europe.....simply because of the use of a blade as a weapon.

I've already said my sons are praying there's still a police amnesty in force when I pop my clogs

Airguns; licences; focus on that please.

M

You were the one who widened it to "watch this space" about other issues than Scottish airgun licensing Mary, and as you have said before, conversations wander and thats a good thing.

My point is, once you accept illogical laws that inconvenience the rational majority, then you don't have a leg to stand on when the next one (which actually has more logic) inconveniences you personally.

It really is that simple - you give up liberties or you don't.

 

[BillyBlade]

Hugh, all of those pushing for the NO, and mind there are supposed to be 500,000 airguns in Scotland....and they couldn't even muster 100,000 signatures on their petitions, in total !

They couldn't even get 50,000....and that's even with folks allowed to 'with hold address'. Seems even folks with airguns can't be bothered to protest the proposed licence.

We have two airguns, it's not bothering us. My neighbour has three, it's not bothering him or his son. Another has two shotguns and a rifle and an air pistol, and he says he's quite glad, because then when the police inspect it's all sorted with no fuss or bother.
My brother is raging angry at the whole idea, but then he believes the NRA is a good idea and so is the National Front and the anti anything that isn't red white and blue, etc.,
I have heard every argument going on the topic

Another neighbour, who has no guns, but has a young grandson, doesn't want the licencing, since he'll have to go through it later on when he buys his grandson an air rifle, but if it's the law, fine, it's the law, maybe the amnesty will destroy a lot of the crap airguns.
My friendly neighbourhood poacher says airguns are more bother than they're worth, and he's selling his pdq and will sell ours too if we want. He knows a man who shoots in Cumbria who's happy to sell them on.

I think the phrase, "no' bothering us", kind of sums it up.

M

So you're happy to see some very ancient civil liberties eroded, based on one tragic and genuinely (based on how many pellets have been shot over the years) one in tens of millions incident, because it's 'no bothering you'.

Perhaps you and your right wing brother have more common ground than you think?

 

[BillyBlade]

Carry a Knife Go to Jail.....can we keep that to another thread please ?

Personally, I dislike the man as a politician, but his stance has widespread approval in an area which has become the murder capital of Europe.....simply because of the use of a blade as a weapon.

I've already said my sons are praying there's still a police amnesty in force when I pop my clogs

Airguns; licences; focus on that please.

M

That legislation doesn't stop them, as the intent remains.

Working as a door steward (which I have done in the recent past to help out a friend, hence why I keep my SIA licencing up to date) I've had someone try and take my face off with a smashed up carbon fibre I-Phone cover. They carry those as they know it's legal to posses in the city centre at night time.

All knife legislation has really done for me is to mean I am forbidden from carrying my incredibly useful Wenger Ranger as an EDC.

Certain types of legislation simply do not work. The sort of person with nefarious intent shall not give two hoots about this bill. All it will do is grind the already overstretched Police resources to a halt, and criminalise the unwary.

My grandfather taught me to shoot an air weapon (safely) as a youth. My own father, unless he wishes to incur penalties of cost and home privacy invasion, is now devoid of that right.

 

[Joonsy]

In my opinion this airgun law was proposed, like many laws, for the worst possible reason, appeasement. I have an airgun in my shed that has not been used for some years, under the new law I would have to give good reason as to why I want to keep it, the only reason I could give is ''I have no plans to use it and as its doing no harm where it is I’d like to keep it just in case I ever want to''. I very much doubt if that would be good enough reason to satisfy the criteria and I would have to surrender the airgun to the appropriate authority (or suffer the expense of the licence if it did). In the same shed I also have a number of butchers knifes, filleting knives, axes, numerous work tools, chainsaws and garden implements all of which could do great harm to another person if stolen and used as a weapon. I am not at present required to have a licence for those implements and do not have to provide good reason as to why I want to keep them in my shed yet they are no less dangerous, i would resent it very much indeed should I have to do so. I am against this new law.

 

[Toddy]

So you're happy to see some very ancient civil liberties eroded, based on one tragic and genuinely (based on how many pellets have been shot over the years) one in tens of millions incident, because it's 'no bothering you'.

Perhaps you and your right wing brother have more common ground than you think?

It's not a blooming liberty; it's simply a licence. We have car licences, we have firearms licences, all this does is put airguns under the same type of licence.
We used to have dog licences; one could argue in light of the travesties that are bred in the name of 'breeding' that maybe we need them again.

Ye gods people, get a grip

Joonsy, if this was proposed as appeasment then it's taken nearly ten years to get it onto the statutes.
No, the idea had already been mooted, but the death of the children simply brought it more to the attention of everyone.
That it's taken this long is surely the clearest indication that those opposed had time to raise any issues. It appears that there wasn't enough of a disagreement.
We'll see.

M

 

[Ogri the trog]

This has rambled on for long enough - I haven't read the entire thread and studied who said what and analysed whether their comment was a pure reply, openly or semi political or underhandedly political.

It has been discussed at length within the Moderators forum with reports from a number of members.

Thread closed, end of!

Ogri the trog