Parallel Firelay Advice Needed

[benn25]

Hi guys.

Its gonna be my 1st ever fire build this weekend and Ive plumped for a parallel firelay. As per Kochanski's book it seems to be the best choice for winter camping for overall usefulness when it comes to warmth and cooking.

However, he doesnt really go into much detail in terms of how I keep it going.

My plan is to go 5,4,3,2,1 with log build, as I feel this will the right size for 2 people. This may be reduced once I get to site, but for now thats the plan. My query is how do I keep it going?

1) Is it a matter of adding new parallel logs one by one or do I build another pyramid on top?
2) Do I have to keep the new logs relatively the same size as the original logs? Does it even matter once the fire is well established?
3) Do I add the new logs once the old ones have almost turned to ash or can I apply just before it gets down to the bottom?

Any other advice or ideas for this set up would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Limaed]

This article might help: http://paulkirtley.co.uk/2015/how-to-build-a-long-log-fire/

and for another opinion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTKGD6Y2mDw

I think the key is in the preparation, although in the (relatively) mild UK you can probably just extend an established fire out and it will be fine for our conditions. Just add wood as you feel necessary.

What are you sleeping in /on, will you have a raised bed? Are you in a shelter or out in the open? If your just in a wool blanket you might find the cold wakes you up as the fire dies down. If you're in a sleeping bag consider whether you need a big fire and whether there is any danger of your bag melting or worse you rolling on to the fire. Wool blankets aren't very warm IMO and you might find you get a cold back unless in some form of shelter.

Consider the smoke and wind direction also, nothing worse than being choked by smoke.

 

[ged]

Crikey, you worry too much.

The main thing is to have more fuel available than you think you'll ever need, and keep it all sheltered from rain and snow.

I personally think sleeping near a fire is unnecessarily risky for the reasons Limaed gives.

I much prefer hot water bottles in my sleeping bag, which are safer, more effective, less wasteful and much less trouble.

 

[quietone]

+1 for the water bottles. Double up as water storage during the day.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

 

[benn25]

Haha, does it seem that way....I suppose im a bit apprehensive as Ive never built a fire before and want something that can be controlled even with my lack of knowledge to fire building.

Well the plan is to sleep under a lean-to tarp in sleeping bag. If Im being honest wasnt even thinking about the sleeping arrangements. My reasons were solely because Im a newbie to fire building so wanted something that was easy to build, easy to maintain and wouldnt get out of control, wouldnt collapse unexpectedly, a good set up for cooking, longevity & could forgive my potential poor choice of material and offer us a little bit of heat during the night if needs be.

Kirtleys long log fire isnt quite the same as Mors's parallel firelay. With Kirtley's there is a gap between the 2 logs. With Mors's its more of a stack. But by the looks of it your advice look as if they match.

Thanks. Any other setup suggestions that may tick most, if not all the above requirements, or will most set ups do the job and I am infact analysing this whole skill far too much?

 

[Limaed]

I think if your sleeping bag is decent than I would just let the fire burn out when you go to bed in the evening. You'll probably have embers left in the morning which can be quickly re kindled for a brew. In my experiences of sleeping out next to a fire you have to get up every few hours to add more fuel or move logs around. I've always opted for a better sleeping bag, tent or bothy when its very cold.

You might want to look at a star fire or hunters fire for the cooking. As long as you clear the floor down to bare earth and don't have the fire on flammable ground these lays shouldn't get out of control and won't collapse.

 

[NarzaCyst]

I'm no expert, and apologies for the above replies, but if this is your first time and you want a persistent fire, then that is your issue... Joerobinetbushcraft does a great vid on YouTube with a constant fed fire that is self reliable, but he is also good at firecraft.

I love fire, I love to play with it and test it, but I can confidently say, I couldn't create a fire that will last 8 hours to keep me warm at night with a self feeding system!

Get a decent sleeping bag, some ground insulation, something to protect your sleeping bag from sparks etc, and maybe something to reflecrt the heat on to you to feel accomplished!

You can't go out and expect a perfect blaze to keep you warm on your first outing. I'm a noob at this stuff, but I also take a step back for a reality check when attempting something slightly less ambitious!

 

[NarzaCyst]

Also, the above vid is in ideal conditions pretty much. Don't get me wrong, I love Paul Kirtley, I love his ethos and non arrogance etc, but he also has contingency plans. If the weather turns sour while attempting this experiment for you, are you able to adapt? Something to consider.

 

[benn25]

Thought Id come back and give you a lowdown of my experience with my 1st ever fire build. It went very well but didnt bother with the original firelay plan. As I was partnered I just decided to build any ole fire and I tell you what when you think you have enough quadruple it. Lol. Bloody hell I thought we were going to take out the whole woods. Slight exaggeration but we used a lot imo.
Now Im unsure whether thats because we didnt have a screen protecting it from the wind, therefore making it burn quicker, or if the fire wood we used was mainly soft wood, or a mixture of both, so something for me to look into a bit more.
I think when I do my solos is when Im going to experiment a bit more.
Anyway thought Id come back and thank everyone for their advice.

 

[rorymax]

Thought Id come back and give you a lowdown of my experience with my 1st ever fire build. It went very well but didnt bother with the original firelay plan. As I was partnered I just decided to build any ole fire and I tell you what when you think you have enough quadruple it. Lol. Bloody hell I thought we were going to take out the whole woods. Slight exaggeration but we used a lot imo.
Now Im unsure whether thats because we didnt have a screen protecting it from the wind, therefore making it burn quicker, or if the fire wood we used was mainly soft wood, or a mixture of both, so something for me to look into a bit more.
I think when I do my solos is when Im going to experiment a bit more.
Anyway thought Id come back and thank everyone for their advice.

Thanks for getting back to tell us how you got on, often we do not get follow ups, so cheers for that.

Enjoy future trips out, making fires is good whatever the weather .

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Thought Id come back and give you a lowdown of my experience with my 1st ever fire build. It went very well but didnt bother with the original firelay plan. As I was partnered I just decided to build any ole fire and I tell you what when you think you have enough quadruple it. Lol. Bloody hell I thought we were going to take out the whole woods. Slight exaggeration but we used a lot imo.
Now Im unsure whether thats because we didnt have a screen protecting it from the wind, therefore making it burn quicker, or if the fire wood we used was mainly soft wood, or a mixture of both, so something for me to look into a bit more.
I think when I do my solos is when Im going to experiment a bit more.
Anyway thought Id come back and thank everyone for their advice.

How big was your fire in terms of diameter and height? A rookie mistake I see a lot is people making fires that are far bigger than they need to be, and thus consume a lot more fuel than they need.

Glad your fire went well, welcome to pyromaniacs anonymous

J

 

[C_Claycomb]

Depends where the rookie is.

A friend chose to sleep out in a lean-to on a winter course with Mors in Canada and had built what he thought was a huge fire with three 6 foot long hug size (10" diameter) logs. Mors looks at it and says he needs another couple of logs, so five for the lay, AND another five stacked close by to add on during the night!!! By morning, all the logs had been used! I was told that the routine was to add a log, dance around until the furnace-like temperature subsided enough to squeeze onto the raised bed in the lean-to, doze with wool clad back towards the blazing fire, roll over when the heat no longer singed your eye-brows, sleep for a while until the cold woke you and you repeated the process!

What some people do for fun.

It should also be said that the wood used in the boreal forest has considerably fewer BTU per volume than our UK hardwoods. Mors just about incinerated the Moot parachute with a 15 foot tower of flame when he stacked maple logs as if they were his native spruce and aspen.

 

[ged]

I don't know exactly where the saying came from, but I believe it was native American:

We build a small fire, and the fire keeps us warm. The white man builds a large fire, and feeding the fire keeps him warm.

 

[crosslandkelly]

Interesting video here,
[video=youtube;hTKGD6Y2mDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTKGD6Y2mDw[/video]

 

[benn25]

How big was your fire in terms of diameter and height? A rookie mistake I see a lot is people making fires that are far bigger than they need to be, and thus consume a lot more fuel than they need.

Glad your fire went well, welcome to pyromaniacs anonymous

J

It was approx. 1m by 1/2m id say. Is that too big? Thought it was just about right personally.

The majority of our logs were about 30cm in length and averaging out at about 10cm in diameter.

Thanks for the welcome. Its definitely a topic that interests me; the different types of firelays, their pros and cons, etc etc. Goes hand in hand with actually getting one going from the materials you have to hand at that particular time imv.

Lots of learning, lots of practice for me.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

It was approx. 1m by 1/2m id say. Is that too big? Thought it was just about right personally.

The majority of our logs were about 30cm in length and averaging out at about 10cm in diameter.

Thanks for the welcome. Its definitely a topic that interests me; the different types of firelays, their pros and cons, etc etc. Goes hand in hand with actually getting one going from the materials you have to hand at that particular time imv.

Lots of learning, lots of practice for me.

How cold was it and was it your primary source of warmth (so no sleeping bag)? if so, not that big. Typically when I have a fire if it goes over 18" square it's rare. Typically if it's just for cooking and maybe to watch (i.e. not life critical), then 1ft square is the norm, maybe 1ft by 1.5ft if I want to have an ember bed at one end and flame at the other. A fire of this size usually uses about an armful of hardwood (usually chestnut, birch or hornbeam in these parts) over an evening.

Ultimately there is no right or wrong way of doing a fire, and if you asked 5 bushcrafters how you should do you fire for a specific purpose, you will get 7 answers.

Try different fire lays, experiment, see what works for you. And if you really want to learn just how small a fire you can get away with, go camping with an Aussie...

J

 

[MongooseDownUnder]

And if you really want to learn just how small a fire you can get away with, go camping with an Aussie...



J

We can light big fires if we want to!😊

 

[Aussiepom]

And if you really want to learn just how small a fire you can get away with, go camping with an Aussie...

J

You must have met an odd one. Every time I go camping with Aussies they always light massive fires - far bigger than necessary. To the extent that you have to try to sheild yourself from the heat just to get close enough to put a pot near the fire.

 

[MongooseDownUnder]

You must have met an odd one. Every time I go camping with Aussies they always light massive fires - far bigger than necessary. To the extent that you have to try to sheild yourself from the heat just to get close enough to put a pot near the fire.

I think what you are referring to is a bogan.

 

[ged]

It was approx. 1m by 1/2m id say. Is that too big?

I can't say if it was too big or not, but it's what I'd call a big fire.
A group of ten or a dozen of us would have a fire of that sort of size at one of our regular meets.
It would be in a permanent pit dug around six inches deep into non-flammable earth, surrounded with rocks or drying logs, and with permanent supports for kettles and cooking gear.

The majority of our logs were about 30cm in length and averaging out at about 10cm in diameter.

Good logs - if they're dry.