Mors Kochanski winter skills course

[Stuart]

We don't have a lot of time if you don't want to go to a really miserable experience or looking like a refugee from an Inuit tourist store.
I have pretty much new wool pants (linesman about as thick as they come) in size 40 waist, with legs that can be resewn to go to 34/36. They've been washed in hot water and have felted up nicely. You'll be needing to get things set up over there, with pants altered to fit WHEN YOU"RE WEARING ALL THE UNDERWEAR THAT GOES UNDER AND TUCKS IN.
A great alternative is to look for old heavy wool suit pants in thrift stores. I just wear heavy duty poly/cotton) workpants with lots of underwear. They're cheap, heavy duty, spark resistant and dry fast.
I haven't looked for leather outer mitts in a while but I should be able to come up with some. They're huge and tough - the 3-4 pairs that are suggested refer to the inner liners/gloves. The leather just keeps the wind and moisture out - but trust me the wind blows in Alberta!
Boots are pretty vital. The best route is a pac style with the new style liners that dry faster - with an extra set of liners. High are best with sewn tongue to prevent snow getting in. Remember that they have to fit over pants and underwear on calf.
Email me if you want me to send you the pants and go looking for mitts.
My boy works in Ft McMurrey which is a bit further north - but he's in camp and working long shifts.
I think the main ideas are clothing that doesn't let snow in, and that's easy to dry out. It's pretty darned dry there, but any moisture will freeze you. It could be 0 degrees with a chinook - but then it could well be -50 before adding on windchill. Pretty extreme place!

Thanks Jimbo but I'm a size 34" waist even with all my layers on I don't think I could fill out a size 40".

I am going to see an expedition supplier on wednesday and see if they can solve any of my problems with the trousers and mitts.

the boots are going to be the biggest problem though.

 

[OldJimbo]

Probably the best bet with pants is to move to plan B - hunt down old wool suit pants or even better go look at heavy duty poly cotton work pants in a larger size that will fit over lots of underwear.
Felt pac boots are still the best option if it gets cold - but if you can find a good deal on larger leather boots that will take 4 pairs or thick socks then you'll make out.
I can still look for mitts if you need.
You need a pretty thick cap too.

The sorry thing about it all is that if you were over here now, it'd be pretty easy to outfit you because obviously winter clothing is pretty common in all the stores. That will be less so at the end of Feb. It may well be that you can find everything you need in an hour in Edmonton, though, just in regular chain stores like Wallmart.
anyways, if I can help, just let me know...

 

[Tim Smith]

You're in for a great learning experience, Stuart. I've attended several of Mors' courses and his reputation is well deserved. Plan on having several layers of warm clothes for above and below the waist; more than you think you could possibly need. Also, lots of warm socks, hats, and mitts/gloves. Heed OldJimbo's advice as it comes from experience. And if you get too cold, sleep closer to the fire.

 

[Burnt Ash]

the boots are going to be the biggest problem though.

Stuart,
You might consider SkeeTex thermal boots, available here on special offer. I think I've even seen an endorsement by Sir Ranulph Fiennes proclaiming them to be the best waterproof extreme cold boots he'd ever used.

Before you dismiss this as crazy, those Technica 'Moon Boots' were not just a dodgy 1970s fashion item, they were, effectively, 'mukluks', just made in modern materials. I wore them in Finland twenty-odd years ago in temperatures of -20 deg C or lower and my feet were as warm as toast (and with only one pair of ordinary ski socks). Surely somebody's got a pair in a loft somewhere? They used to turn up in charity shops pretty regularly.

Burnt Ash

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Stuart, a Canadian source of winter clothing, footwear and other items is
www.lebaron.ca
I have dealt with them often and they could possibly get it to you in time in England or sent to an Alberta address?
Extra felts for your pac-boots would be a good consideration as well as a hanging device to let the days felt dry near a heat source (rope + 2 hooks)
Bring extra socks change and wash socks daily, don't put on so many socks that they constrict your foot in your boots and cause loss of blood flow and cold damage.
For reference only (I only wear 1 pair of thick wool socks at a time in my pack boots and change & wash daily), My friend (ex MNR biologist) wears a thin pair of socks close to his skin and a thick wool pair on top, We rotate felt liner daily and hang/dry the days footwear) I also wear gaiters from the knee to the boots to stop snow from entering boot as I snowshoe/hunt where the snow is deep and no trail exist. We don't shave in winter when in the bush. Wear polarised sunglasses with side shield. Have bandanas available to wipe your nose (no joke). Have a good time and carry hard candy.
just a thought :chill:

 

[OldJimbo]

Did you have any luck with the outfitters, Stuart?

 

[OldJimbo]

A little wider pic than I'd hoped - but my first experience with the GIMP image editor. I guess I'll learn and resize again later.
I was visiting the next town so I got the last pair available in large - just in case, Lots of mediums and smalls. If you don't need them, then they'll come in here for snowshoeing. No luck on extra liners yet, but one wears thin gloves with them anyway and the liners are removable of course.
The grey undershirt is what most people go for in the north - but that one shows what they look like after a lot of wear and washing. New - they're a little bulkier. Well actually a LOT bulkier! At first after looking at the normal stuff, you tend to think that someone packed a big sweater in the package by mistake.

The thin Stansfields "Ultrawash" is fine with most people - but the thick grey industrial grade stuff takes some getting used to. The trick is to put it on in a cold place until you get used to it. You'll see lots where you are going.

 

[Stuart]

Whoa!... I been bombaded with so many offers of kit and advice both here and by PM, including a kind individual who drove down to meet me with a boot full of kit.

I am now almost totally kitted out!!!!!!! Thanks Guys :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :You_Rock_

Just goes to show what a wonderful resource of information and assistance this website can be.

Thanks for picking up those over mittens OldJimbo they look great if they'll fit over my thick wool mitts I would love to use them, could I meet you in edmonton? thank you very much.

thank you very much to all of you

could I also ask for some advice on carrying water? whats best for caring it? how do I stop it freezing? how do I unfreeze it when its frozen?

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Water? I carry about a litre+ of hot tea/water? in an insulated/vacuum thermos, when I hunt/travel I don't wear that heavy of clothes as I could start sweating thermos carried in pack (make sure it doesn't leak :shock otherwise melt/boil/purify ice/snow in kettle/pot and enjoy the moment. Where we are always lots of snow/ice to use so we melt/boil/drink as we go, be careful of contaminants (yellow/brown snow). Some of us carry a small flask inside coat/parka next to armpit area (lots of heat) in a harness for immediate use, refill when melting/boiling snow, drink often.
Enjoy :chill:
just a thought

 

[Davey Munroe]

Hi Mate, Look I've been on one of his courses and spent some time in the area. If you want to be comfortable, get yourself a pair of canadian army mukluks. their not expensive and if you go to to Edmonton mall, there's a shop there called "Supply Sgt", they'll have them.

 

[OldJimbo]

Email me an address and I'll get them posted as fast as possible, Stuart.
Unfortunately I'm working then, and it's a huge trip to Edmonton in any case, since I'm over on the north west coast.
The Edmonton Mall is a huge place. For sure they'd have everything there - but it'd take some running around! Better that you have the bulk of the stuff with you - and know it fits.
Keep looking at:
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/
but remember that archived temps for dates in Feb just give temp, not wind chill - and that's what matters.

 

[Stuart]

Email me an address and I'll get them posted as fast as possible, Stuart.
Unfortunately I'm working then, and it's a huge trip to Edmonton in any case, since I'm over on the north west coast.
The Edmonton Mall is a huge place. For sure they'd have everything there - but it'd take some running around! Better that you have the bulk of the stuff with you - and know it fits.
Keep looking at:
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/
but remember that archived temps for dates in Feb just give temp, not wind chill - and that's what matters.

Sorry Jimbo I didn't realize you were so far away from Edmonton, dont worry about posting them I wouldn't want you to go to the expence and the speed of post from the US to the UK is abysmal.

I will try to get into that mall

many thanks for all your help

 

[bushblade]

Sorry Jimbo I didn't realize you were so far away from Edmonton, dont worry about posting them I wouldn't want you to go to the expence and the speed of post from the US to the UK is abysmal.

I will try to get into that mall

many thanks for all your help

I think you may be wise to check the location of your course Stuart, last time I visited Alberta and British Columbia, they were in Canada

Seriously though, good luck and enjoy yourself mate.

 

[OldJimbo]

If I get them off this week, they'll be there in ten days.

 

[Stuart]

thanks jimbo i'll send you a PM

 

[OrionN49]

Hello, Stuart.
I live about 45 minutes from where you'll be taking the course. I've never taken one of Mors' courses but I've talked to him a few times and I've read his books and put into practice what he teaches (he's now semi-retired).

If you're still looking for kit, as someone else wrote, Supply Sergeants in West Edmonton Mall is a good source for the wool pants. They also have the mitts that Jimbo posted the pics of, along with the military style Thermax underwear. They're a little pricey, but that comes from being located in that God-forsaken mall.

Another good source is Camper's Village, along with Wholesale Sports, both in Edmonton.

Camper's Village
http://www.campers-village.com/CVedmon.html

Wholesale Sports
http://www.wholesalesports.com/

Supply Sergeant
http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/spplsgt/

Another good one is Ron's Outdoor in Edson, Alberta (the closest "large" town to where you'll be). Sorry, no link.

You can pick up Sorel or Baffin pack boots at almost any work wear or shoe store in Alberta.

If you have any questions whatsoever about the area, please don't hesitate to ask, I'd be more than happy to help.

Orion

 

[OldJimbo]

What are your predictions for weather at the end of February when Stuart will be up there? As far as predictions can go , of course... It sure is some strange winter here on the west coast with little snow and record cold.
the weird thing here is that people are getting used to their "new weather" and actually enjoying it. Usually Jan and Feb are pretty grey - so sunshine is welcome even if it's -35C with windchill.

 

[Stuart]

thanks Orion :biggthump

 

[OrionN49]

OK, here's my best guess for the weather.
That late in February we usually get lows in the -5 to -10C range and highs a couple of degrees above the freezing mark. Of course, there ARE exceptions as I've seen it as high as +18C and as cold as -45.
Feb. is a fairly dry month here, so I wouldn't expect a lot of precipitation.

Even if it gets really cold at night, as long as the day is clear and sunny it usually warms up fairly quick as the sun is starting to get quite a bit of heat that late in the winter. I've seen the air temp. down to -40 in early March and watched water running off the roof from the melting snow.
So, dress for the worst and hope for the best!

Jimbo, it's been a fairly dry winter here, too. We've only about 6" of snow on the ground. I'm in the eastern slopes of the rockies and we generally get a LOT more snow than what we've been getting the last few years. Warming up though, today it's supposed to get up to -5!

Hope this helps.

 

[OrionN49]

Just bringing ths back up to the top.
When Stuart gets back, I'd like to know what he thinks about my neck of the woods. I know he's been spoiled, because it's been well above freezing in the daytime for the last couple of weeks! ):