rancid badger
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I would try to organise payment BEFORE the event if possible.
I actually like the idea of a "name and shame" policy too.
R.B.
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"Leave no Trace". Yeah right.
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I would try to organise payment BEFORE the event if possible.
I actually like the idea of a "name and shame" policy too.
R.B.
I don't get wasted too often, although it isn't unheard of. That is more because I can't drink to save my life! 
If you can carry a crate of beer in, which is heavy, why not take the empties out which is very light in comparison? It is a question I find myself pondering and it comes down to respect of the land and other people. If you are inviting people that have no respect, you'll soon know. Don't invite them again!
Besides, if you are jeopardising your own permission to help others, then you need to ask yourself if it is all worth it in the end. Personally, I'd say it isn't.
If you can carry a crate of beer in, which is heavy, why not take the empties out which is very light in comparison? It is a question I find myself pondering and it comes down to respect of the land and other people. If you are inviting people that have no respect, you'll soon know. Don't invite them again!Besides, if you are jeopardising your own permission to help others, then you need to ask yourself if it is all worth it in the end. Personally, I'd say it isn't.
SimonM
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I think you have hit the nail on the head with that comment...
Having read this thread, twice, it seems that most of us are in the same opinion over tidying up after ourselves. Sadly after the Bowley Meet, I was left to clear up a blood soaked ambulance dressing which had been left in the middle of the field.
I have organised a few Meets now, and to my mind at least the best was also the smallest! With that in mind, I will probably restrict numbers at any future Meets to a small group of people known to me and then open it up to a few others on a first come first served basis.
As I have already said, I do not want these Meets to become elitist - after all we were all noobies once
, and we all need a chance to get an "in".In addition, I have to think about my reputation within Scouting - I have worked hard to gain the trust of a lot of people and this is paying off in many ways. I have recently been asked if I would become an assessor for the Nights Away Permit, particularly green field. If I lost my reputation how could I look people in the eye whilst assessing them on their camping skills?
Anyway, thanks to all for contributing...but I think the time has come to let this lie now
ATB,
Simon
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That is why I suggested a name and shame system. I organised a meet in Scotland and some people didn't pay me. I didn't know them from Adam. If there was a name and shame list I could have checked and refused to let them onsite.
How much were you out of pocket? I'll bung it into your paypal right now.
Ive been to enough Achray meets to know it's easy to forget. I wasn't at that one but that's beside the point. Folk will be reading this not know how much you're talking about. I'll happily take the hit for any number of the 70p a night defaulters from up this way.
I can chin them for it the next time I see them.
If you're looking to public humiliate each person that owes you a couple of quid then fair enough - knock yourself out. If you'd like your money PM me your paypal details.
I couldn't agree more, why do people have to have booze to enjoy themselves, can't they leave it for one night and enjoy the outdoors and the company ?
MagiKelly
Making memories since '67
For the record I paid for the Achrey site in advance, as I always do. The cost is not excessive and I have never even counted the money given to me. On a few occasions we have even just had a tin for people to stick a contribution in with funds going to a charity.
For other sites where the cost is more I can see it being more of an issue but all in the Achrey site is usually less than £30 in total.
What would be more of an issue would be the site being left in a poor state but I have been the last to leave all but one Achrey meet and the site has been left in pristine condition or at least better than we got it. As a result the Forestry Commission are happy for us to use it any time.
Like Wayland said, why is there so much rubbish?. Most meets have a fire and a lot of waste can be burned whilst cooking is not going on rather than put in landfill. I always burn as much as possible and the rest I pack out unless there is a suitable bin. It's not hard to do. It's a shame that a few responsible people have to rectify irresponsible actions. It happens at the bushmoot too. Many times I've woken up and had to fill a few binbags full of cans, bottles etc from the naughty corner along with the likes of Badger, Cyclingrelf, Drewdunn and a a couple of other bods. If everyone just took care of their litter everyone else would be much happier and it would be much more pleasant in the mornings without a ritual litter pick
If there was a problem that time it was one of their fault.
Harking back to the bloody bandage that was mentioned somewhere. Perhaps someone cut themself bad packing up and was in a hurry to get treatment. Not everyone is going to yell out that they hacked their hand stuffing their axe into the rucksack.
The nails in the ash bit is more of a pain for the tidy-up crew but surely just suggesting that someone brings a riddle next time is better than the old up-against-the-wall treatment.
.....having said all that. Folk chucking fag ends gets to me.
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I think this was inevitable.Why,because the popularity of bushcraft has exploded the last few years,you just have to look a the membership on here,when i joined there were 300 odd members,now we have over 14,000 members and guests on top of that,plus other forums,blogs,youtube etal.I personally think that when something becomes very popular the more diluted the original ethos becomes.I remember back in the day watching Ray on Country tracks,and when he demo'd how to light a fire there used to be red triangle flash up on the screen with a caption at the bottom saying,something along the lines of, always seek permission before you light a fire and always clear it away,leaving the site just like you found it or even tidier.You just don't see enough of it in any media.
Anyone remember the 12 woodlores?
I also think that,because of the popularity,there are people out there who maybe just take the best bits from bushcraft,or through lack of knowledge go out and leave a mess.I think its easy to jump on the bushcraft band wagon and off we go, rather than delving in and immersing themselves deeper and learning about the original ethos.
Maybe its our responsibility to maybe educate where ever we can,and hopefully the message may start to sink in,as it would be great shame if people started to have personal invite only meets,as i think it would be a big loss to the openness of bushcraft.I fully understand why Simon got upset though,as i would of also.
So maybe we need to be a little bit clearer about the meets from the out set,clarify whats expected of everyone if they so choose to attend one.
As for the name and shame thing i don't think it would resolve anything at the end of the day.If someone wants to attend a meet and you've have had an issue in the past,could you not give them a pm stating that if they wish to come along then there are some stipulations attached,this time.
Lastly the people who were responsible for the reason to have this thread,well maybe a long hard look inwardly is needed.
Anyway just some of my thoughts.
Cheers Stuart.
Anyone remember the 12 woodlores?
I also think that,because of the popularity,there are people out there who maybe just take the best bits from bushcraft,or through lack of knowledge go out and leave a mess.I think its easy to jump on the bushcraft band wagon and off we go, rather than delving in and immersing themselves deeper and learning about the original ethos.
Maybe its our responsibility to maybe educate where ever we can,and hopefully the message may start to sink in,as it would be great shame if people started to have personal invite only meets,as i think it would be a big loss to the openness of bushcraft.I fully understand why Simon got upset though,as i would of also.
So maybe we need to be a little bit clearer about the meets from the out set,clarify whats expected of everyone if they so choose to attend one.
As for the name and shame thing i don't think it would resolve anything at the end of the day.If someone wants to attend a meet and you've have had an issue in the past,could you not give them a pm stating that if they wish to come along then there are some stipulations attached,this time.
Lastly the people who were responsible for the reason to have this thread,well maybe a long hard look inwardly is needed.
Anyway just some of my thoughts.
Cheers Stuart.
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I think it's sad that it has come to this, Simon puts a great deal of time and effort into these events which we should all support. It would be a disaster if they were to end.
I went to the Oct 2009 Middlewood meet and had a great time, met new people, had a natter and a few beers around the fire and learned many new skills.
I was halfway home on the Saturday morning when i realized i hadn't cleared my couple of empties from the fire pit - I tell you I was horrified. As soon as i got home i posted & PM'd my apologies to Simon which were graciously accepted - I think that tells you the measure of the man.
I could give you a dozen excuses why i forgot - namely the primal lust for shiny things in Lurch's tent! But the long and short of it is, i should have cleared them away that night and not left it till morning. It was a silly mistake, but one i will not make again.
It might sound hypocritical but nails, staples & blood soaked rags - come on!
However I do have a few suggestions for future events:
2. Meets could be advertised on the "Full Members" forum first.
3. Payment upfront by Paypal for any special events/costs that are laid on.
4. If someone can't make an event on the day, maybe a Mobile number to text would be helpful. For £5 you can get a sim only and just keep it in a spare phone for the weekend, costs could be covered by BCUK membership fees.
5. Basic duties could be allocated when camp is established ie. Who gets the wood (no pun intended) on the first night, clean up duty... all on rotation.
I help organize classic car rallies and that's what we do - runs quite smoothly too.
Just my two penneth.
James
I went to the Oct 2009 Middlewood meet and had a great time, met new people, had a natter and a few beers around the fire and learned many new skills.
I was halfway home on the Saturday morning when i realized i hadn't cleared my couple of empties from the fire pit - I tell you I was horrified. As soon as i got home i posted & PM'd my apologies to Simon which were graciously accepted - I think that tells you the measure of the man.
I could give you a dozen excuses why i forgot - namely the primal lust for shiny things in Lurch's tent! But the long and short of it is, i should have cleared them away that night and not left it till morning. It was a silly mistake, but one i will not make again.
It might sound hypocritical but nails, staples & blood soaked rags - come on!
However I do have a few suggestions for future events:
2. Meets could be advertised on the "Full Members" forum first.
3. Payment upfront by Paypal for any special events/costs that are laid on.
4. If someone can't make an event on the day, maybe a Mobile number to text would be helpful. For £5 you can get a sim only and just keep it in a spare phone for the weekend, costs could be covered by BCUK membership fees.
5. Basic duties could be allocated when camp is established ie. Who gets the wood (no pun intended) on the first night, clean up duty... all on rotation.
I help organize classic car rallies and that's what we do - runs quite smoothly too.
Just my two penneth.
James
"Leave no trace" is the first commandment (In my mind) of Bushcraft.
If you do, you're not a Bushcrafter.
I understand people make a living/supplement income by educating others in the art of Bushcraft and therefore will get the odd fool who just wants a lark about in the woods. So perhaps by employing a deposit scheme might disuade people from leaving a mess say 20 quid?
If you do, you're not a Bushcrafter.
I understand people make a living/supplement income by educating others in the art of Bushcraft and therefore will get the odd fool who just wants a lark about in the woods. So perhaps by employing a deposit scheme might disuade people from leaving a mess say 20 quid?
I think the leave no trace ethos counts in certain instances. If I am constantly going back to the same place, should I always leave it camouflaged to my presence when I leave? I don't as it is deep in a coppice wood and so I leave the fire pit tidy and prop my tripod up against a tree, any spare wood is stacked in the crook of another tree to keep it up off the ground for next time. If it is a place where people will be going and I won't be visiting again then I will hide everything, but not if I am going back time and time again.
The canny attitude of the Scots on this thread makes me fair chuffed and proud. It'd be a shame to lose the friendliness and flexibility of Scottish meets by introducing pre-payment rules, name and shame rules etc. Some folk just need a bit of time to adjust to etiquette.
I'd have been barred under such rules after my behaviour at the first Achray meet I went to. I was bladdered, I blame the fact that I couldn't see the bottom of the cup I was pouring the whisky into because it was dark.
I remember Eric Methven had a right laugh at me for feeling sheepish the next morning.
I'd have been barred under such rules after my behaviour at the first Achray meet I went to. I was bladdered, I blame the fact that I couldn't see the bottom of the cup I was pouring the whisky into because it was dark.
I remember Eric Methven had a right laugh at me for feeling sheepish the next morning.
I'd have been barred under such rules after my behaviour at the first Achray meet I went to. I was bladdered, I blame the fact that I couldn't see the bottom of the cup I was pouring the whisky into because it was dark.
Lol - I'll have to try and remember that one Rob
The canny attitude of the Scots on this thread makes me fair chuffed and proud. It'd be a shame to lose the friendliness and flexibility of Scottish meets by introducing pre-payment rules, name and shame rules etc. Some folk just need a bit of time to adjust to etiquette.
I'd have been barred under such rules after my behaviour at the first Achray meet I went to. I was bladdered, I blame the fact that I couldn't see the bottom of the cup I was pouring the whisky into because it was dark.
I remember Eric Methven had a right laugh at me for feeling sheepish the next morning.
I shouldn't worry about it, everybody minus boring farts have made a bit of a tit of themselves after a few too many drinks. I know I have, it has become some sort of life long hobby for me!
If nothing happened at these meets it'd be a boring time.
I'd have been barred under such rules after my behaviour at the first Achray meet I went to. I was bladdered, I blame the fact that I couldn't see the bottom of the cup I was pouring the whisky into because it was dark.
I remember Eric Methven had a right laugh at me for feeling sheepish the next morning.
It's all part of the initiation.
Sorry, but as one of those that attended this meet, I'm a bit miffed with this thread.
Simon wasn't left out of pocket, many of us chipped in extra funds to help cover the costs. There was even a bit left over for HFH.
Some of us did help clear up, shifting unused pallets back to the woodpile, taking one of the fire drums back, lifting some of the empties and taking them offsite.
It needs to be repeated, loudly - these problems were down to the few, not the majority of attendees.
Simon wasn't left out of pocket, many of us chipped in extra funds to help cover the costs. There was even a bit left over for HFH.
Some of us did help clear up, shifting unused pallets back to the woodpile, taking one of the fire drums back, lifting some of the empties and taking them offsite.
It needs to be repeated, loudly - these problems were down to the few, not the majority of attendees.
I like the idea of a rota, at the middlewood meet it was a case of "ah we're out of pallets i'll go get some" but a rota would work, i'd suggest aswell any communal area's like around a fire there be a bin bag or something and thus empties and anything that won't burn can be dumped in there and later then disposed.
i'd like to stress tho meets are a fantastic thing, i learned several new skills and met some fantastic people at middlewood and i look forward to doing so again in the future!
i reckon a bit of common sense and mucking in and we can sort any issues.
i'd like to stress tho meets are a fantastic thing, i learned several new skills and met some fantastic people at middlewood and i look forward to doing so again in the future!
i reckon a bit of common sense and mucking in and we can sort any issues.
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