Learnt a bad lesson today

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Gray

Full Member
Sep 18, 2008
2,091
10
Scouser living in Salford South UK
I cant re call how many times in the past i've been carrying a rifle in its case when going to the gunsmiths or going shooting, i've passed police officers on numerous occasions and never been stopped once. Was I breaking the law doing this......I dont think so somehow. The principle is the same is it not?
 

Lister

Settler
Apr 3, 2012
992
1
37
Runcorn, Cheshire
I cant re call how many times in the past i've been carrying a rifle in its case when going to the gunsmiths or going shooting, i've passed police officers on numerous occasions and never been stopped once. Was I breaking the law doing this......I dont think so somehow. The principle is the same is it not?

I think the issue with knives is the ease of conceal-ability, rifle/shotguns however, aren't so easily hidden...."Is that a shotgun in your pants, or are you just pleased to see me" ;)
 

Mouse040

Full Member
Apr 26, 2013
533
0
Radstock
It seems there are some good folks on this forum and it gives me a good feeling and restores my faith in man but I still stand to decline with thanks and apologise if this offends as I don't do it likely

But your right this is quite a complicated situation and I'm also left questioning what to do regarding carrying a blade at all
I'm also quite shocked that I've only had one other person telling me of this happening to them I just must be unlucky story of my life
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
The very nature in which we (as bushcrafters) transport sharps doesn't offer a great deal of security, if they were transported with lockable sheaths then i think that would offer a defence, "yes i have knives on my person however they are securly stowed and rendered safe"

Absolutely not, the law is massively restrictive but does allow the carriage of knives and why should we go to any expense or bother when we are legal anyway?
 
Feb 15, 2011
3,860
2
Elsewhere
we seem to be loosing more of our rights as humans every day !

Don't know about rights but the Brits are loosing a lot of liberty in the name of security. Knee jerk legislation by political leaders or is there something more sinister being prepared...The UK has 20% of the total CCTV cameras used in the world.............that loss of privacy doesn't seem to bother most citizens, are they brain washed or sheep ?
 

Will_

Nomad
Feb 21, 2013
446
3
Dorset
Contact the IPCC, and indeed, take them to court. If we accept someone taking our property when we have not committed an offense, where does it end?

Amen to this. If you're up for the fight Mouse, you'll be doing it for more people than yourself.
Last year I had 3 police, (2 armed) come round my house and confiscate 2 air rifles. A bit over the top for shooting a pigeon on my land. I refused a caution, and eventually after 2 weeks, had the air rifles returned. They also conceded that I had been shooting within the law. If I hadn't stood my ground, I'd have got a caution, possibly lost my job and I bet the air rifles would have ended up going home with one of Dorset's finest ;)
Could be worth a letter to the chief constable of Avon and Somerset constabulary, Nick Gargan too.
 

VANDEEN

Nomad
Sep 1, 2011
351
1
Newcastle Upon Tyne
Oh dear, I'd hoped they would roll over on this one :-(

I've seen people be intimidated by the police on many occasions, sometimes because they didn't know the law, sometimes because the officer lead them to believe that he/she knew it better.
The police have a very difficult job & a lot of it is about "positioning" to control potentially volatile situations, sometimes they "over position".

You've only got to see some "right wrongun" being arrested and his attitude & response to the officer to know that he has a better understanding of the limits of the law than the majority of the law abiding people of this country & often the arresting officer themselves.

I have had several personal dealings with the law, mainly on the good side I hasten to add :)
I've also had a couple which if I hadn't reacted appropriately that could have caused the officer to also react
in a different way & I may not have come out of it as I did.

Hence the things that always spring to mind when hearing of someone being arrested / targeted by the police is.

What did they do to get the officers attention in the first place?
&
Did they then react appropriately & pass the officers attitude test?

Some officers apply this more fairly than others. Sometimes being informed of your rights is enough for you to fail the test, other times the reverse is true. Sometimes the language you use, or don't will cause you to fail it, sometimes even if you're in the right it is better to, cow tow, & move on, but never admit to anything you haven't done. Sometimes you're just bang out of luck with that copper at that time & if he "can't get you on anything" he will find some way to inconvenience you instead.
It's unfortunately all down to the copper on the day and his reaction/perception re. you.

If everything you have told us is a true and complete representation of the events & I was in your position, & able to peruse this then I would. Think of it as championing a cause :) It may be a bit of a struggle as their ranks will close but the victory will be all the more sweet because of it. Even an officer can be made to feel justly uncomfortable when being questioned in the dock.

Did you explore the possibility of legal cover on your home/car/credit card insurance?

Membership of something like BASC or other countryside body again provides legal cover under some circumstances, don't know if that is available to you?

Best of luck, & next time I'm in the company of some of the law I'll ask their off the record opinion & let you know.



 

Swallow

Native
May 27, 2011
1,545
4
London
I think there is too much fear and over-reaction being generated in this thread. Not regarding Mouses direct matter, the posts regarding that have been of the highest quality.

But there is another section of posts proposing general wide ranging solutions, which are very weighted towards the fear of being in the same position as Mouse and these just aren't thought through.
 

david1

Nomad
Mar 3, 2006
482
0
sussex
I am not the best person to write anything.. but should we not all be writing to this police station / inspector asking for advice on how we can legally carry our knives, I have the biggest rambo style knife that I only ever strap to my leg on deeper dives... not bush craft but used in diving... How do I get it to a dive site ???

Or should we be writing letters to our local MP sighting Mouses case ? anyone want to draft a template ?
 

widu13

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 9, 2008
2,334
19
Ubique Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt
I think there is too much fear and over-reaction being generated in this thread. Not regarding Mouses direct matter, the posts regarding that have been of the highest quality.

But there is another section of posts proposing general wide ranging solutions, which are very weighted towards the fear of being in the same position as Mouse and these just aren't thought through.

Agreed bud. There's been a a LOT of rubbish talked about on this thread by barrack room lawyers thinking that they can interpret the law their own way- they can't there are decades of statue and case law behind these things. I won't bother clarifying the legal points as it's been done a million times before.
 

Swallow

Native
May 27, 2011
1,545
4
London
I am not the best person to write anything.. but should we not all be writing to this police station / inspector asking for advice on how we can legally carry our knives, I have the biggest rambo style knife that I only ever strap to my leg on deeper dives... not bush craft but used in diving... How do I get it to a dive site ???

Or should we be writing letters to our local MP sighting Mouses case ? anyone want to draft a template ?

That's exactly the kind of post I am talking about. The bigger and more public the issue the harder it is for the people in question to quietly back out the decision. We would be escalating the conflict. Even if they know they are wrong they are more likely to stand firm and that likelihood increases the bigger and more humiliating the climb down is. I would have thought quiet pressure from the solicitor and demonstrating this is not going to go away, but it is going to be made easy to back out the decision is the better strategy.

I invite anyone thinking of escalating thought to consider the below

What a daft way to stop your spaniel eating the milkman

Jeremy Clarkson

As we know, one man once got on one plane in a pair of exploding hiking boots and as a result everyone else in the entire world is now forced to strip naked at airports and hand over their toiletries to a man in a high-visibility jacket.

In other words, the behaviour of one man has skewed the concept of everyday life for everyone else. And we are seeing this all the time.

Last month a Birmingham couple pleaded guilty to starving their supposedly home-schooled daughter to death. Now, of course, there are calls for parents who choose to educate their children at home to be monitored on an hourly basis by people from the “care” industry, and possibly to have their toiletries confiscated.

Then we have calls to ban sexually provocative pop videos from the television until 9pm and put Loaded magazine on the top shelf. Will this prevent teenage boys from seeing girls’ breasts? Well, whoever thinks it will has plainly never heard of the internet.

We see the same sort of overreaction to paedophilia. Just because one man in your town likes to watch schoolgirls playing netball, you must apply for a licence if you wish to take a friend’s kids to school in the morning. And I now run the risk of having my camera impounded by the police if I take pictures of my children playing on the beach.

Likewise, if I decide to take a picture of St Paul’s Cathedral I will be hurled to the ground by anti-terrorist officers and possibly shot six times in the back of the head — just because one person in Bradford once made a speech about the infidel.

We seem to have lost sight of the fact that throughout history 90% of people have behaved quite normally 90% of the time. Agatha Christie, for instance, was home-schooled and at no point was she forced to eat breadcrumbs from her neighbour’s bird table.

Of course, at the extremes, you have 5% who are goodie-goodies and who become vicars, and 5% who build exploding hiking shoes and starve their children to death.

It’s this oddball 5% that is targeted by the tidal wave of legislation. But making it more difficult to teach your children at home will not stop kids being mistreated.

It just changes the pattern of everyday life for everyone else. This is what drives me mad.

We now think it’s normal behaviour to take off our clothes at an airport. But it isn’t. Nor is it normal to stand outside in the rain to have a cigarette or to do 30mph on a dual carriageway when it’s the middle of the night and everyone else is in bed. It’s stupid.

And last week the stupidity made yet another lunge into the fabric of society with the news that government ministers were considering new laws that would force everyone to take a test before they were allowed to keep a dog.

No, really. Because one dog once ate one child, some hopeless little twerp from the department of dogs had to think of something sincere to say on the steps of the coroner’s court. Inevitably, they will have argued that the current law is “not fit for purpose”, whatever that means, and that “steps must be taken to ensure this never happens again”.

The steps being considered mean that every dog owner in the land will have to fit their pet with a microchip so that its whereabouts can be determined from dog-spotting spy-in-the-sky drones, and that before being allowed to take delivery of a puppy, people will have to sit an exam similar to the driving theory test. The cost could reach £60, and on top of this you will need compulsory third-party insurance in case your spaniel eats the milkman.

So to ensure that someone in the north called Mick doesn’t shove his pit bull into a primary school playground to calm it down, I will now have to computerise my labradoodle and answer a lot of damn fool questions about when my dog should be on a lead.

In other words, the normality of dog ownership will be skewed. Instead of spending your free time with your pooches, throwing balls or tickling them under the chin, you will be forced to provide tea and biscuits for someone from the department of dogs while he inspects your cupboard under the stairs for evidence that they’ve eaten the cleaning lady.

This will achieve nothing good. It will ruin the enjoyment of dog ownership for millions, it will result in thousands of abandoned dogs, as people realise they can’t afford the insurance, and yet it will make no difference to men in the north called Mick, who will continue to tattoo their dogs with gothic symbols of hate.

What good did all the airport legislation achieve? None. It simply means that you and I now must get to the airport six years before the plane is due to leave and arrive at the other end with yellow teeth, smelly armpits and no nail file. Did it prevent a chap from getting on board with exploding underpants? No, it did not.

Happily, however, I have a solution to the problem, a way that normal human behaviour can be preserved. It’s simple. We must start to accept that 5% of the population at any given time is bonkers. There are no steps to be taken to stamp this out and no lessons to be learnt when a man with a beard boards a plane with an exploding dog.

Government officials who are questioned on the steps of coroner’s courts must be reminded of this before they speak. So that instead of saying the current law is “not fit for purpose” and that something must be done, they familiarise themselves with an expression that sums up the situation rather better: “**** happens.”
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
I am not the best person to write anything.. but should we not all be writing to this police station / inspector asking for advice on how we can legally carry our knives, I have the biggest rambo style knife that I only ever strap to my leg on deeper dives... not bush craft but used in diving... How do I get it to a dive site ???

Or should we be writing letters to our local MP sighting Mouses case ? anyone want to draft a template ?

A concerted letter writing campaign might be a good idea indeed. At least it'll show them another side of public opinion.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
That's exactly the kind of post I am talking about. The bigger and more public the issue the harder it is for the people in question to quietly back out the decision. We would be escalating the conflict. Even if they know they are wrong they are more likely to stand firm and that likelihood increases the bigger and more humiliating the climb down is. I would have thought quiet pressure from the solicitor and demonstrating this is not going to go away, but it is going to be made easy to back out the decision is the better strategy.

I invite anyone thinking of escalating thought to consider the below

Yes for Mouse. But even if they don't publicly back down, they're unlikely to repeat the same action in the face of overwhelming public opinion. That's the question though; is there enough such public opinion?
 

david1

Nomad
Mar 3, 2006
482
0
sussex
well when I asked a chief inspector about the knife I was carrying he told me that he thought it was illegal as it was a lock knife. so I just stopped carrying it and went back a to a non locking folder. but I have had a knife in my pocket for about 30 years now.

My suggestion of a letter still stands but only if the group thinks its a good thing, my opinion might be different to yours swallow but I dont want to rock the boat, just help if I can :)
 

Swallow

Native
May 27, 2011
1,545
4
London
well when I asked a chief inspector about the knife I was carrying he told me that he thought it was illegal as it was a lock knife. so I just stopped carrying it and went back a to a non locking folder. but I have had a knife in my pocket for about 30 years now.

My suggestion of a letter still stands but only if the group thinks its a good thing, my opinion might be different to yours swallow but I dont want to rock the boat, just help if I can :)

David, please don't take that as being in any way personal, and indeed if that's what we are going forward with and what Mouse wants I will probably back it.

But I don't think there is a rush on a solution, I was pointing to the idea that probably the best thing for now is to calm it down a bit, let it swirl around for a couple of days so that anything we do for either Mouse's or general case is well considered and likely to be effective.
 

Samon

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 24, 2011
3,970
44
Britannia!
I think the main complication with this is that the OP accepted the 'warning' thing. This has ballsed up his defence, and it's the exact intention these deceptive charges have!

It might be worth producing pocket cards with the relevant knife law on them to take with you when you ever have a knife on you, but it won't solve the bigger picture of poorly advised and uneducated policemen in the country. Taking it up with local MP's and furthering your case in court is the best option, not only for yourself but for the rest of the decent people who use tools for legitimate hobby purposes.

If you're lucky, you might change the law for the better , i.e case law!
 
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