Has the world gone mad!!!

[deepcmonkey]

I decided on a Stuart Marsh Bushy, I have been after one of his knives for ages, always watched his ebay auctions and normally would make a bid, however they always ended up at a far greater price than I thought they were worth.
I finanally managed to bag one the other day, I stuck in a bid of £185 which was the starting bid and won and I am very happy with it. To me this is the most I would be happy to pay for a working knife.

 

[demographic]

I decided on a Stuart Marsh Bushy, I have been after one of his knives for ages, always watched his ebay auctions and normally would make a bid, however they always ended up at a far greater price than I thought they were worth.
I finanally managed to bag one the other day, I stuck in a bid of £185 which was the starting bid and won and I am very happy with it. To me this is the most I would be happy to pay for a working knife.

Which is fair enough and shows that there are other makers of perfectly acceptable knives out there.
I am glad that you got what you wanted and are happy with it.

We (the royal we) seem to be getting hung up on having the same stuff as our "hero", now I am sure he's a nice bloke and all that but its pathetic.
There are other makers out there (as you have found), have a look.

Don't fall into the magic bushcraft knife trap.

 

[Bernie Garland]

Plus sometimes mass production actually means that the product is better controlled.

if you make one item its a fair thing to say that its not as well made as a batch.
just because something is hand made doesn't mean its better made, I make things by hand every working day but even I have to admit that.

The prototype is almost always worse than the production item because on the production item you get to perfect it.

Does a Rolex tell better time than a Rotary? Or Timex for that matter?
I know what I would rather own but thats just on a "value" aspect, I bet that the timex tells the time as well as the Rolex.

were not talking about the skill involved here in making a watch, but the skill to produce a knife blade, ground and heat treated and tempered to a rc of 58/59 please tell me me how so and so's blade is better than mine or any others

 

[demographic]

were not talking about the skill involved here in making a watch, but the skill to produce a knife blade, ground and heat treated and tempered to a rc of 58/59 please tell me me how so and so's blade is better than mine or any others

Sorry, I should have quoted JonathanD when I said that bit.
The watch comparison was his.

My mistake.

 

[JonathanD]

were not talking about the skill involved here in making a watch, but the skill to produce a knife blade, ground and heat treated and tempered to a rc of 58/59 please tell me me how so and so's blade is better than mine or any others

I have never seen your work, so this would be impossible to comment. But it's not just the blade that we are talking about here. We are talking about the entire package - scales, materials, weight, function, design, sheath, maker (is important to many that's why Mercedes is preferential to more than say, a Skoda), service, after sales, experience, and the list could go on.

You could take a production blade like a Mora and modify it with exotic wood handle, filed spine and leather sheath. Still the same blade, but a more desirable knife containing more craftsmanship etc. etc.

Don't take this so personally, no one is saying Alan Wood is better than you, but his reputation speaks for itself, and that in itself makes his items more desirable,and I'm not talking about the Woodlore knife in these discussions, more so the original post knife(BB Bushcrafter). The Woodlore is another discussion entirely and it's popularity exists due to Ray Mears more than Alan Wood. The WS version proves this. I don't care whether Ray Mears used a certain design, but I do care who makes my knives and I would spend more on an AW or Stu Mitchell knife. I would also buy a Merc over a Mini and Panasonic over Grundig, Victorinox over Millets Swiss Knife knife. If I have the funds to do this that I have earned, then whats wrong with that?

 

[British Red]

Having seen Bernies work, I have to say I agree with him!

Not that we shouldn't have regard for a maker - we should. But also to quote Bernie

as in a bushcraft knife a rc reading of 58/59 thats it,no more can be done ,its down to then blade shape,grinds, thickness, handle shape, handle material ect or i own a so and so

As the man says - its down to what you do with that basic component.

What makes the Precision Field Knife the best knife I have handled? Well, its the fit to my hand,the angle of gind, the fit and finsih that stu put into it. The materials are O1 steel and wood and silver. The whole though, is "more than the sum of the parts"

This knife has Nothing to do with materials or hardness. Its all to do (as Bernie would have it) with

blade shape,grinds, thickness, handle shape, handle material

Red

 

[MagiKelly]

were not talking about the skill involved here in making a watch, but the skill to produce a knife blade, ground and heat treated and tempered to a rc of 58/59 please tell me me how so and so's blade is better than mine or any others

If you do not think a knife blade can be badly ground or tempered then I think you are providing fuel for the opposition

The grind can be uneven (ground further on one side than another) the tempering can be inconsistent. The shape of the blade could be way out. Much as you may not believe it there are a thousand ways to make a blade badly and a million stages in between a badly made blade and an excellent one.

I do not know where your blades would fall on this scale so can't comment. I know Alan''s generally fall in the excellent category and his prices reflect this. Others can and do match this quality and some of them charge prices in the same region.

 

[Deleted dude 7861]

Red stop posting pics of the knives you own they make me dribble and go weak at the knees

How I would love one like that one, truly magnificent! Until then I'll stick to my cheap finnish puukko with it's uneven grind but to me is my perfect knife

 

[Bernie Garland]

Having seen Bernies work, I have to say I agree with him!

Not that we shouldn't have regard for a maker - we should. But also to quote Bernie



As the man says - its down to what you do with that basic component.

What makes the Precision Field Knife the best knife I have handled? Well, its the fit to my hand,the angle of gind, the fit and finsih that stu put into it. The materials are O1 steel and wood and silver. The whole though, is "more than the sum of the parts"

This knife has Nothing to do with materials or hardness. Its all to do (as Bernie would have it) with

blade shape,grinds, thickness, handle shape, handle material

Red

here is a prime example an exceptionall knife worth every penny, worth more than the knife listed on ebay imho. i make knives like others for a living and its a knife like that, that pushes me to get to that sort of excellence, one day i hope i'm equall to that level
bernie

 

[buckley]

That knife is incredible Red! Wow.

 

[Bernie Garland]

If you do not think a knife blade can be badly ground or tempered then I think you are providing fuel for the opposition

The grind can be uneven (ground further on one side than another) the tempering can be inconsistent. The shape of the blade could be way out. Much as you may not believe it there are a thousand ways to make a blade badly and a million stages in between a badly made blade and an excellent one.

I do not know where your blades would fall on this scale so can't comment. I know Alan''s generally fall in the excellent category and his prices reflect this. Others can and do match this quality and some of them charge prices in the same region.

no disrespect here but we are talking about a piece of flatstock cut and shaped to the dimensions required, grinds to to the dimensions required,heat treated to rc required,how can any maker get it different to another maker, if following the steel manufactures guidelines which come with the steel,as all knifemakers have the same knifemaking or similar knife kiln, so the end results have to be the same
bernie

 

[spamel]

The difference would be the overall shape and fit and finish, if all other things are equal. I'm not disagreeing with what you have to say, but sometimes it can be the small things that make you choose who to go with. As usual, no names no pack drill and all that, but I have seen knives with mosaic pins that aren't lined up. It looks bad. Now, I discussed this with Scruff at his house the other night and he showed me an example of when this probably isn't the makers fault. The mosaics can spiral in the larger tube, thus the maker is on to a losing battle from the start, maybe that is why I prefer solid brass pins!

There can be a multitude of things that could go wrong with a knife, scales lifting after use, edge retention not being what was hoped for, even to a complete failure of the edge. I've had that happen to me and I was very upset as the edge went into a right angled turn! The maker is making good on that though, but still it can upset a person if they have waited for a while for a knife. The after sale care that I recieved means that I would recommend that maker, no problems.

It would be folly to say that makers can't make a mistake.

 

[deepcmonkey]

I was thinking about the rising prices of these knives, surly a way to stop this would be for one of the knife makers on here, maybe either Mick, Stuart or Bernie to contact Woodlore and offer to start making the woodlore again under licience for Ray. Just a simple birdseye maple or a few other woods no fancy stuff, would have a stamped logo like the original woodlores ie Ray Mears-Stuart Mitchel, and sold for a resnable price. It seems Alan Wood can not do this at the mo and as there are other equally good knife smiths out there I think it would be a good idea. I really do think this may put an end to the ridiculas knife prices we are seeing at the momment.

Has any one else thought about this?

 

[Bernie Garland]

The difference would be the overall shape and fit and finish, if all other things are equal. I'm not disagreeing with what you have to say, but sometimes it can be the small things that make you choose who to go with. As usual, no names no pack drill and all that, but I have seen knives with mosaic pins that aren't lined up. It looks bad. Now, I discussed this with Scruff at his house the other night and he showed me an example of when this probably isn't the makers fault. The mosaics can spiral in the larger tube, thus the maker is on to a losing battle from the start, maybe that is why I prefer solid brass pins!

There can be a multitude of things that could go wrong with a knife, scales lifting after use, edge retention not being what was hoped for, even to a complete failure of the edge. I've had that happen to me and I was very upset as the edge went into a right angled turn! The maker is making good on that though, but still it can upset a person if they have waited for a while for a knife. The after sale care that I recieved means that I would recommend that maker, no problems.
iIt would be folly to say that makers can't make a mistake.

i'm sorry but again i disagree, every knife i make and dispatch has to be faultless i am an ex sufferer of ocd and everything i do still has to be straight,inline ,even, ect, and am surprised that you have received a knife from a uk maker not up to your expectations, and can assure you as other makers will are knives are faultless,
bernie

 

[spamel]

i'm sorry but again i disagree, every knife i make and dispatch has to be faultless i am an ex sufferer of ocd and everything i do still has to be straight,inline ,even, ect, and am surprised that you have received a knife from a uk maker not up to your expectations, and can assure you as other makers will are knives are faultless,
bernie

That's you, others do make mistakes though, trust me! But then that reinforces what I say, not all makers are equal, some have a bit more attention to detail, and that is what you should be paying for if anything.

 

[Bernie Garland]

That's you, others do make mistakes though, trust me! But then that reinforces what I say, not all makers are equal, some have a bit more attention to detail, and that is what you should be paying for if anything.

this i agree with you,i personally would never supply a knife to anyone, if i thought it had any flaws no matter how minute, as its my creditability at stake,just one poor knife takes away your hard earned creditability,and word of mouth is any makers strongpoint

 

[spamel]

this i agree with you,i personally would never supply a knife to anyone, if i thought it had any flaws no matter how minute, as its my creditability at stake,just one poor knife takes away your hard earned creditability,and word of mouth is any makers strongpoint

Exactly! What happened to me was just one of those things, the maker is making good on it so his after sales is spot on and I have no qualms with that. Sometimes, these little things happen months after a blade has been made. I am no expert knife maker, not by a long chalk, but the scales I epoxied onto a knife I made recently just started to lift off at the corners and it hasn't really done anything other than slicing beef for jerky. I'm not bothered as I made it myself, it isn't up for sale and it's just a cheap beater but if it was a makers' I would expect them to ask for the knfe to be sent back so that they could make good on it.

I have actually seen that happen a few times, just with a scale lifting slightly or whatever, but I have also heard of a well known makers' knife coming with poor bevels that the owner then set straight himself. I suppose if you have the know how to do that, then that is fine but if you have to send it back to the maker and lose time with the knife, it's a bit crap really isn't it!

 

[JonathanD]

Now if Red put his beauty on Ebay, I would pay 'HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD' type of money

 

[British Red]

There will be a long wait for that knife Jon.

It cost less than the knife on E-bay though (a lot less). That's what makes the price of Woodlores odd to me. Not that people shouldn't spend there money in any way they wish, but more that they could get so much more for the kind of money they are spending. For me I really enjoy seeing true craftsmen make something beautiful and functional. The PFK is now a lot less pristine given it has had a LOT of hard use - but its made to be used, not looked at. If I ever wear it out (fat chance) I can have all the fun of designing a better knife. Not sure how, but it must be possible

Red