Grumpy old rant.

[KAE1]

A couple of recent threads have pushed me to post this. Its about respecting your quarry and its (your) surroundings.
This is a great site, I am relatively new but have learnt a great deal and 'met' some really talented people.
My concern is the effect some of this survival stuff has on newcomers. I read of rabbits being snared and the use of inappropriate 'traditional' hunting weapons and I read of guys going into the woods with big blades cutting down trees, making shelters, making fires etc.

I have been killing wild animals for a long time, yes of course I have wounded some but throughout I was always taught to show deep respect. Your quarry is not a toy or a paper target, its a living thing. Being thwacked in the rib cage with a .22 pellet or a stone hurts. strangulation really isn't nice.

Regarding trees, I was taught to cut neatly and at an angle to allow rain to run off. I was taught to cover any recently cut stumps with branches.brashings to stop deer/rabbit damage or to pollard the tree higher up for the same reason. Poorly chopped, ragged stumps/branches are prone to rot and disease. Be aware of intended permenant removal or intended healthy re growth.

I guess all I am saying is please show respect. Continue to enjoy yourselves but be aware of the consequences of your actions.

 

[john scrivy]

Very nicely said >here here

 

[Dougster]

An important point, sensitively and clearly put.

Thanks Keith. Sensible guidance - certainly not grumpy rant.

 

[Pablo]

I agree, nice post. I've noticed quite a few tutorials on how to do stuff, but it might be an idea to do a couple on "How to do it sensitively".

Pablo.

 

[Toadflax]

I happened to catch a bit of a Rick Stein program last night that my wife was watching. He was at a shellfish and fish stall in Spain and was picking up some the shellfish and enthusing about them, but then casually chucking them back on the pile. Similarly, when he had a look at a piece of salt cod, he enthused over it, but then casually threw it back onto the other fillets. Maybe I was being over-sensitive at the time, but his manner seemed disrespectful to the remains of the creatures that he was handling.

I eat meat, fish and vegetables but when I prepare a chicken or piece of meat, I do feel some sense of guilt /respect for the animal from which it came. I feel bad when I don't have the time to, for example, make stock from a chicken carcass, as I believe that if the animal has been killed for me to eat, then I ought to show it the respect of using it fully and not throwing away parts that I cannot be bothered to use.

From RM's Outdoor Survival Handbook: "Place the parts that you do not use somewhere respectful where they will return to the land again - for example, bury them. The rubbish bin is not a fitting way to dispose of these unwanted pieces."


Geoff

 

[jojo]

I agree entirely. This is not a grumpy old rant. It can be too easy in pursuing our hobbies to forget to be sensitive and respectful to other creatures be they the animals or the plants that may have provided "materials", and only take what is necessary. Be it leather or wood, a creature lost it's life to provide us with those material. So thank you for the reminder, KAE1.:You_Rock_

 

[Gary Elson]

Hi

This is a really interesting debate which raises a multitude of questions about whether it is 'better' to eat farmed animals wild animals etc
However I believe it can be boiled down to how much you care and how much effort you put into finding out where your food comes from then doing what you think is right
and only taking what you need

This certainly isn't a rant - it should underpin the way we operate as 'bushcrafters'

Gary

 

[jon r]

I agree with everyone entirely. I think we should be more aware of where our meet comes from rather than just buying it as an 'object' of a supermarket shelf. I have a lot of respect for nature and i think the more time you spend amongst nature the more you respect it.

Sometimes i have even felt that i should move quielly throught the woods because making noise and disturbance is disrespectfull.

I think if you eat meat from a shop you should be prepared to kill to eat too. Its something we need to learn.

 

[decorum]

I think that this thread could be the inspiration of future threads which illustrate the before and after of how to improve your bushcraft techniques.

Using a tree which requires felling as an easy example - pictures could be taken of the effect on a tree of undercutting and not undercutting a branch prior to it's removal followed by the correct trimming of the remaining stump. Then the correct way to fell the tree (explaining where to stand and what the spring-board effect is :yikes: ) and tidying the stump could be shown along with how to limb the tree correctly; followed by some of the uses of various bits of the felled tree. If links to relevant threads were included in the post (choice of equipment, safe use of equipment etc) both skill levels and learning could be more easily enhanced.
KAE1, you may have called this a grumpy old rant, I call it thought provoking. :You_Rock_

 

[Fallow Way]

Unless you walk with respect, to all others you run with greed.


It isnt bushcraft unless it is done with sympathy.

 

[Toddy]

Well said both on the animal and tree fronts.

Might be a good idea to have a how to prune properly/ effectively thread. Coppicing, adn the like, showing how things develop after human actions.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[locum76]

I happened to catch a bit of a Rick Stein program last night that my wife was watching. He was at a shellfish and fish stall in Spain and was picking up some the shellfish and enthusing about them, but then casually chucking them back on the pile. Similarly, when he had a look at a piece of salt cod, he enthused over it, but then casually threw it back onto the other fillets. Maybe I was being over-sensitive at the time, but his manner seemed disrespectful to the remains of the creatures that he was handling.

[Geoff

I agree with all in this thread, but I'm sure at ricks age, and with the undoubtedly huge amount of fish he has cooked its understandable that he could get a wee bit insensitive about it all. I've no axe to grind but i like his work.

 

[Tourist]

Might be a good idea to have a how to prune properly/ effectively thread. Coppicing, adn the like, showing how things develop after human actions.

That would be nice to see, please do it Toddy.

I think the popularity of TV and its exposure of the great outdoors has led to Chainsaw Camping rather than bushcraft and wilderness living.

Comparatively, I like living in villages, nowadays the 'wonga' or 'dosh' that some people earn makes them aspire to country living - sadly they bring their Harley Davidsons and Barbies (the cooking kind and the bimbo kind) with them and think that everyone wants to share their stereo's until 2.00am.

 

[Aaron]

I happened to catch a bit of a Rick Stein program last night that my wife was watching. He was at a shellfish and fish stall in Spain and was picking up some the shellfish and enthusing about them, but then casually chucking them back on the pile. Similarly, when he had a look at a piece of salt cod, he enthused over it, but then casually threw it back onto the other fillets. Maybe I was being over-sensitive at the time, but his manner seemed disrespectful to the remains of the creatures that he was handling.

I eat meat, fish and vegetables but when I prepare a chicken or piece of meat, I do feel some sense of guilt /respect for the animal from which it came. I feel bad when I don't have the time to, for example, make stock from a chicken carcass, as I believe that if the animal has been killed for me to eat, then I ought to show it the respect of using it fully and not throwing away parts that I cannot be bothered to use.

From RM's Outdoor Survival Handbook: "Place the parts that you do not use somewhere respectful where they will return to the land again - for example, bury them. The rubbish bin is not a fitting way to dispose of these unwanted pieces."


Geoff

I'll have to remember to wear black and do 'the death march' next time I visit the fish counter at Morrisons

 

[SOAR]

I dont really think its a grumpy rant more a concern that people need to be more educated. I agree with you all 100 percent.

 

[leon-b]

Well done that man
Leon

 

[-Switch-]

You're a good man KAE1 for starting this thread, and for putting the point across very well. This subject is something that I've wanted to post about for some time but never really knew how to approach it.

The recent increase in interest in bushcraft is a double edged sword. On the one part it increases the knowledge, respect and undestanding of the natural world which is a good thing. On the other hand it encourages the uneducated to venture into the woods with an armoury of sharps where they will wreak havok without the slightest idea of what they are doing. Education about safety and respect should be at the fore-front of all bushcraft teachings ( when I say 'safety' I'm thinking more about the safety of the natural world than I am of people). Take wood for example - people should be taught how to safely and respectfully harvest the wood that they need before learning what the different types of wood can be used for.

A little learning, as they say, is a dangerous thing.

 

[Greg]

I personally don't think there is any need to kill any wild animals yourself when you can go to a good butchers and buy the meat over the counter before going on your w/end outing. If you spend all your money on gear to go out into the wilds then you can spend a couple of quid on an animal that has already been unfortunately dispatched rather than to go out and kill another.
I read a friends Air rifle magazine the other day in work, and there was an article on this rabbit shoot where they guarenteed you could go and shoot in excess of 100 rabbits in a w/end - WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE WANT TO DO THAT!!!!!
Yes ok go out shooting if you must, but there is no need for mass slaughter! IMO you should only kill to put food on the table if and I mean if you need to, and then only take what you really need. End of story!

Only yesterday my mate said he went shooting on his friends land during our time off work and between them they killed over 200 pigeons and crows, I just told him what I thought, there wasn't anything else I could do, but it probably went in one ear and straight out of the other.

We have to look after what is left of our natural world, and it all starts by having respect for the land and the wildlife that lives there. Just because its available doesn't give us the God given right to take it.

Rant over.....

 

[KAE1]

Thanks for the comments.I think I was probably spurred on by my recent trip to the woods with the kukri. Every time that I failed to cut a pole with a neat single slice I looked at the ragged, messy edge and thought 'do I want re growth' if the answer was yes, out came the saw to do the job neatly. I wondered how many people buy their big blades and go off into the wood, slashing away without a thought.
In the case of some self seeded willows that I didn't want to survive I left them ragged and explained later to the landowner my actions and the reasons behind them.

With regards to pest control, Greg, it is necessarry to take big bags sometimes but do it humanely and do it with respect. When I did a lot of ferreting I felt a tinge of guilt for every perfectly healthy rabbit that was caught in the net and was subject to me breaking its neck. Its not like dispatching a shot but wounded rabbit, netted rabbits are 100% healthy and you play the part of God as you decide to end its life.
Same with pigeon decoying, on many ocassions I simply packed up and went home after I'd shot a dozen, even if the birds were still coming in thick and fast, but I wasn't doing a good service for the farmer!

Killing animals isn't necessarily wrong,I think for me a lot depends on the speed of death and the respect from the hunter, after all hunters are usually the strongest guardians of their quarry.

 

[Greg]

This wasn't pest control they were shot for sport!