Frosts Mora Destruction Test

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johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
www.facebook.com
as for the add in my Sig, many members here advertise there buisnesses or alternative websites in there signatures, i dont see how this is any different

Hola,

I'm not really commenting on your right to have a web address in your signature or not that's definately not up to me, as I said I think your use of it is clever and is sure to have it's desired effect of increasing visits to your Youtube page ( especially after this thread) . What I was ineloquently trying to say was that in having an 'add in your sig' you're inviting folk to look at the content of any web page that the address points to. What you have to weigh up as a marketer ( which is what you are in this case) is thus, is the web page content your sig points to suitable for your target audience or the majority of your target audience??

Hope that explains it...

Adios...
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
Hola,

I'm not really commenting on your right to have a web address in your signature or not that's definately not up to me, as I said I think your use of it is clever and is sure to have it's desired effect of increasing visits to your Youtube page ( especially after this thread) . What I was ineloquently trying to say was that in having an 'add in your sig' you're inviting folk to look at the content of any web page that the address points to. What you have to weigh up as a marketer ( which is what you are in this case) is thus, is the web page content your sig points to suitable for your target audience or the majority of your target audience??

Hope that explains it...

Adios...

i understand mate, sorry if i came accross as a little blunt in the last post.
cheers,
josh
 

helixpteron

Native
Mar 16, 2008
1,469
0
UK
my channels not all about bushcraft, i dont expect everyone to like my film making style.
the ultra violence and apple shooting is just a bit of fun, its not to be taken so seriously.
i make these videos for fun and entertainment, im not claiming them to be perfect.
i see no reason why you find it so neccesary to insult me and my film projects.

You posted your promotional video, which includes the title "and Ultra Violence!" using an edged tool, on a bushcraft Forum.

It is your promotion, description and usage of the edged tool, particularly your glorification of the "Ultra Violence!" aspect, at a time of growing concern at the violent attacks by, and on young people, whose weapon of choice happens to be the edged tool!

The increasing pressure from government, political parties, police, public authorities and the media regarding the selling, ownership and usage of edged tools is only served by such video's.

My point regarding the wealth of published and broadcast experiences from respected bushcraft, outdoor and survival instructors concerning the Mora's usage, capabilities and limitations was partially inspired by what I have seen Mors K. achieve with one!

The Mora is possibly the most thoroughly tested, proven, carried and respected outdoor tool of its type, of which there exists every evaluation including X-Rays and modifications, the self styled "Destruction Test" video has yet to enhance the knowledge database, in my opinion.

I did not insult you, I made the point that I believe that "Ultra Violence!" with an edged tool, and self styled "Destruction Test" video content are best not promoted on a bushcraft Forum.

Had you not requested comment, I would not have offered mine. I regret that you feel that I insulted you, that was not my intention. My response is to the quality of the video content, as I had initially stated.
 

helixpteron

Native
Mar 16, 2008
1,469
0
UK
Newsflash: not every little thing discussed or referred to on this website is the sort of thing you see Ray Mears doing on telly. The guy provided a link to a video showing a few things he enjoys doing. Apparently berrating people for having a bit of harmless fun isn't one of his hobbies.

Pointless test eh? Perhaps you could tell Mors Kochanski that.

I think the content of your posts could be improved by leaving the vitriol corked.

I referred to specific issues, not "every little thing discussed or referred to", as you stated.

Not having had a television for almost two decades, I have no idea what Ray M. does on the television.

"Ultra Violence!" as the title to a video segment of a young person using an edged tool in the manner depicted, promoted and broadcast via a bushcraft Forum does, I believe, merit comment.

"Pointless test eh?" Actually, the OP's term was "Destruction Test", my opinion is that it was utterly pointless, for the reasons which I have stated to the OP, in my post immediately prior to this. Your comment on Mors K. is somewhat ironic.

The OP requested comment, I responded, I did not berate, nor was I vitriolic.
 

Matt.S

Native
Mar 26, 2008
1,075
0
36
Exeter, Devon
I referred to specific issues, not "every little thing discussed or referred to", as you stated.
I did not say that you were referring to 'every little thing.'

Not having had a television for almost two decades, I have no idea what Ray M. does on the television.
Good for you. I was using it as an example off the top of my head; not every thing that is discussed/mentioned/referred to on BCUK falls into 'bushcraft' (whatever that means). Providing a link to a video, two of the many segments of which include fruit destruction, barely registers on my 'off-topic-o-meter'.

"Ultra Violence!" as the title to a video segment of a young person using an edged tool in the manner depicted, promoted and broadcast via a bushcraft Forum does, I believe, merit comment.
I see your point and can agree to a limited extent. However I saw it as a quite inoffensive joke and am surprised you have a problem with it.

"Pointless test eh?" Actually, the OP's term was "Destruction Test", my opinion is that it was utterly pointless
Yes, thus 'pointless test'; how you described it.

for the reasons which I have stated to the OP, in my post immediately prior to this. Your comment on Mors K. is somewhat ironic.
So Mors Kochanski and others test knives in various ways, making SiberianFury's testing irrelevant thus shouldn't be shared?

I did not berate, nor was I vitriolic.
Apologies if I misinterpreted your writing but in a non-verbal communication medium, without clarification as to your meaning and intent it can be easy to infer such meanings from what few communication clues remain.

Perhaps this is not my business. I will butt out.
 

Opal

Native
Dec 26, 2008
1,022
0
Liverpool
I think this young man (SF) is a breath of pure fine air, he's only been on this earth 18 years and can show a lot of us a thing or two, I enjoy his posts on the sites, they're always constructive, he's nobody's fool either.
icon12.gif


I suppose I'm wrong in thinking there is envy somewhere abouts?
icon7.gif
 

Nagual

Native
Jun 5, 2007
1,963
0
Argyll
Hi there Siberianfury,

First off i think is good that you are taking an interest in seeing how far you can push your tools in usage, and wanting to show the results to the public. While your choice of viewing matter may be questionable to some, I see it more as a presentation problem, and one that can be easily addressed. I'm no expert in film making, not by a long way, had some experience in using editing software and helping to beta test professional software too. I've saw lots and lots of amature film footage, ranging from a few seconds to feature length, from people trying to produce works of art, testing special effects, visual effects to people just messing around. As I say this does not make me an expert in any stretch of the imagination but I hope I can give you a coupe of friend pointers.

You've got the first thing you need. Desire. You've actually got off your bum, with an idea in your head and went out and filmed it! Hundreds if not thousands of people don't get past the 'I have an idea' stage. So well done for actually doing it!

Next you really have to think about two things. Someone else has already pointed out one of them : your target audience. This matters a lot more than you may have first thought, and as you can see by some reactions here, can have a very important impact on your work, or more importantly how it is perceived. The second thing, and often over looked is your presenter, in this case you. Combined with your subject matter it can detract from the actual presentation, if your not careful. I say this with no malice or bias at all, but being young(ish) and combining knifes, in this day and age is not the simplest of things. Certainly not an impossible task at all, just needs a little forethought and some simple planning.

The quality of frame work in your actual shooting wasn't bad, but certainly could be improved. Lighting, wasn't too bad, but certainly wasn't great. Sound, well the sound track was nice enough but I'll address the sound aspect in a moment. When you're outside in the great outdoors, you are at the mercy of the elements and everything mother nature can throw at you. To that extent you are somewhat left to your own devices, and other than picking the perfect day what can you do? Well, simple and cheap answers to that are taking some A3 sheets of white card, which are easily folded up into a pack, out with you. Take some dark ones too. A fine black net is also useful too. the white card placed on a frame. or tacked to sticks you find outside and placed out of shot can reflect more light onto shaded areas giving much better illumination on you, likewise a dark card actually helps reduce reflection, so if you find your ideal spot you can to some degree or another alter the amount of light you are getting. The fine netting can be used to diffuse the background, which essentially adds a Depth of Field to your shot, this means you are in focus more than your background.

Now to address your sound. As much as I like your music, for the type of video that you produced here, lose it, or reduce it to background levels if anything. Add narration, that is you talking to the camera, telling us, the viewers what it is your doing and why. Something along the lines of "Here is the Mora, blah blah, cheap blah blah, but how good is it, what can it do.." you get the idea. By explaining why you've picked those particular tests, ie commonly used in the field, useful for doing X,Y and Z, you will have also informed your viewers of something very practical not just a viewing entertainment experience, as remember not all people who see your videos will come from a Bushcraft background. If you can manage to do that, as you complete the test you can add further comments as you go, how it feels, the quality, etc all the smaller elements that you instinctively know and may take for granted, but people watching won't realise. Speaking clearly and slowly to the camera takes a bit of getting used to and you'll make mistakes, but it is by making mistakes you learn to make a better production.

Anyway I've rambled on quite enough I think. If I can offer any more tips or comments just ask, I'm more than happy to try and help.
 

Draven

Native
Jul 8, 2006
1,530
6
34
Scotland
Huh, funny how quick a thread can go south.

I agree that destruction tests are utterly pointless, and for someone such as myself who right now couldn't even afford to buy a mora, incredibly annoying. I don't need to know how to break a knife, I could work that out on my own! However, IMO he didn't test it to destruction, he tested it in a manner recommended by Mors Kochanski, a very well-known and well-respected Bushcraft writer and instructor. Whether it was a worthwhile test or not is irrelevent, lots of people think it is and would like to see it - I enjoyed seeing it, though I really don't see why the hell I'd need bang my knife into a tree and stand on it. I think it was a good show of Clipper strength, nonetheless, and with all the arguments that rage about half tangs and hidden tangs (which doubtless confuses many people into thinking that if they don't get a full tang 4mm knife it'll explode when they try and make feathersticks) I think it was worthwhile. I don't see why the nails in the 2x4 were worthwhile. But then, if you whittle nails, then maybe you will.

As for the ultra violence thing, SF I have no idea how old you are bud, I've assumed that you're under 20 so I'll just roll with that.
So aye, give the kid a break for cryin out loud, it was "Ultra violence" as a caption showing him slicing a melon, clearly somewhat tongue-in cheek. It's not like he was clubbing seal pups. Given the political climate regarding knives, it wasn't very well thought through at all (the powers that be won't care that you're cutting a melon, and will happily claim that you were cutting up kittens to push their agenda) but a polite word would be better than a patronising and generally unpleasant post.

For the record, SF, I do think that the "Ultra Violence" thing is a bit weird. Your list of favourite movies on Youtube rocks though.

Pete

PS: What's wrong with shooting apples!?
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
ahh, i see the ultra violence seemed to raise some concern, basicly its a personal joke i had with a freind of mine, i can see how it can be veiwed as controversial in our current knife climate when a person of 18 (16 in that segment of film) is weilding a machete and cutting a watermelon, that clip was filmed when a freind and i decided to make a samurai tamashguri type film, the "ultra violence" was a quote from clockwork orange, the whole thing is just a joke with no intent on violence what so ever.

my target audience is probably people around the same age as me, i like making bushcraft and knife reveiws, however when i look around youtube most of them invole a guy at a table talking about a knife thats never been used. so thats why i decided to make "fast paced" videos all about
bushcraft and edged tools in order to captivate an audience with a slower attention span.
i use proper and safe techniques when using knives.

i went for the mora destruction test because:
alot of people own and use moras.
Personaly I like to know how much abuse a knife can take.
i wanted to shed some light on the myth that hidden tangs are week
i also though that alot of outdoorsmen would enjoy seeing it.

as for the films there youtube videos, no ones asking for perfection.
i enjoy making films for myself and others and will continue to do so.
:)

ATB
Josh
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,152
2,897
66
Pembrokeshire
Hmmmmm - not my kind of music realy....I have seen worse video by many...pretty good stuff realy!
I had a look at your other material and thought the same - piy about the waste of good food though - or did you eat the remains?
As to the Ultra-violence... not many will pick up the reference to that great book and pretty good film "A Clockwork Orange" which was a great prediction and warning about, the then future, state of society decending into anarchic violence, both from the State and individuals with young people becoming disassociated from "Adult" society...... a prediction that seems to be coming more true every day!
A violent anti- violence book/film which was banned in Britain for a very long time "A Clockwork Orange" put the question of which is worse the State and society that allows and even condones and uses drugs and violence at every level or the individual who sees the violence as the Norm and participates?
The harmless reference to this socialogically important book/film actually started me thinking about how this kind of "constructive/destructive" video is a a much better use of a young persons time than hanging out with ones "Droogies" and participating in gang warfare!
I think the practical test of the knife (I have only read about it so far) shows how good stub tang knives realy are!
On reflection - if you used a sound track by Ludwig Van I would have been more impressed!:)
For those of you who have not read the book - do so!:D
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
cheers John,
the musics not for everyone, i do have some beethoven but not on my PC.
clockwork orange is a brillant book, the film aint bad either, a freind of mine has a drooges costume.
atb
Josh
 

Hoodoo

Full Member
Nov 17, 2003
5,302
13
Michigan, USA
There have been some borderline comments made in this thread. Folks need to step back a bit and take a deep breath. Y'all are startin' to sound like a bunch of hens at a peckin' party. It's not mandatory to throw a stone at every barking dog ya know. All members here deserve respect, unless they cross the line. And whether they cross the line or not is decided by the moderator staff. That's why we have the post reporting function.

duty_calls.jpg
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
There have been some borderline comments made in this thread. Folks need to step back a bit and take a deep breath. Y'all are startin' to sound like a bunch of hens at a peckin' party. It's not mandatory to throw a stone at every barking dog ya know. All members here deserve respect, unless they cross the line. And whether they cross the line or not is decided by the moderator staff. That's why we have the post reporting function.

duty_calls.jpg

Fair enough, but sometimes I wonder if the current membership here wants to close the doors to new members or not. Too often there are new folk turning up and getting it in the ear from the off set. If people want to be treated with respect then they should afford others the same respect and maybe they'll get it back at them. The video put up for people to see was about a Frosts Mora knife, not watermelons and machetes. If folk want to click on his signature link and don't like what they see, don't go there and if it is against forum rules report it. Hijacking SF's thread and turning it into something else seems a bit vindictive to me.

I'm not the only one who feels this way, plenty of other people in other places are saying they don't come here any more because of the way the old and bold treat newbies. Is it really necessary?
 

Air Pirate

Tenderfoot
Mar 16, 2009
92
0
46
Nashville, TN, USA
I loved the video. I've wanted to see that test done to a Mora, but didn't have the heart to do it to any of mine. I personally didn't worry about looking at any of the other videos since they weren't the subject of the post.

SF, maybe you could have two video channels. One for bushcrafty stuff, and another for non-bushcrafty type stuff?
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
39,011
4,660
S. Lanarkshire
I'm stating up front that this thread is going to be heavily modded, but I will leave this explanation here for this evening so that those who have contributed can see why.

Firstly, a link that leads to a video that is not considered 'family' safe is not permitted.
The OP freely admits that there is a big element of violence in what he has produced with his videos.
This site is read by children and students.
If they open those from a link here, we have a problem, especially if they open them in school or college.

That the same link is self promoting is another issue.

In general this forum is self moderating, those who have already drawn attention to these issues aren't 'putting someone off', they are simply trying to keep the forum within the above guidelines.

Your understanding in this matter would be appreciated.

cheers,
Toddy
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
So you're going to delete posts because it paints some of the members in a bad light? Not sure if you really need to do that, deleting the links that offend should be enough but removing the bully boys posts will allow them to do the same to somebody else another time. It is quite obvious that SF isn't going around skinning babies!
 

Siberianfury

Native
Jan 1, 1970
1,534
6
mendip hills, somerset
as far as i can tell the only thing in that video that could be labled as innapropriate was the 2second footage of my cutting a melon in half with a machete. personaly i dont see how this can be offensive, but id rather remove it than let it become a problem.
 
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