France.

[Jjv110]

Hello all.

This is my first post and was made aware of this site by someone at British Blades. Apparently a few of you live in France. I would like to know if anyone knows of any locations to put a bit of bushcraft into practice and to do a spot of wild camping/fishing etc. Obviously a fire will be involved, so it can't be anywhere too far south where I know they have restictions on fires. Basically, It would take ages to drive around the country in search of a decent location, so I thought i'd ask first.

Thanks, Julian.

 

[Tony]

Welcome to bcuk, it's good to have you

You might have to wait a day or so for one of the guys to come on but you should get soemone pointing you in the right direction.

 

[Jjv110]

Thanks Tony, It's good to be here amongst like minded folk.

 

[Moonraker]

Hello all.

This is my first post and was made aware of this site by someone at British Blades. Apparently a few of you live in France. I would like to know if anyone knows of any locations to put a bit of bushcraft into practice and to do a spot of wild camping/fishing etc. Obviously a fire will be involved, so it can't be anywhere too far south where I know they have restictions on fires. Basically, It would take ages to drive around the country in search of a decent location, so I thought i'd ask first.

Thanks, Julian.

Hi Julian, welcome to the fireside

I have spent quite a bit of time researching this as I have lived in France now for 2 1/2 years now.

The short answers are:

Wild camping in France. Is actually legal in France BUT you need to gain permission from the land owner first and there are many restrictions on government owned lands such as EDF electricity company. A few of the general restrictions are: in the forests of the ONF you must get permission; no camping next to roads; no camping on beaches; no camping within 200 metres of water bodies used for drinking or hydro dams; no camping on classified sites (nature parks etc) or in national parks (most of the nicest areas then); no camping within proximity of national historic monuments . Many of the forests are controlled by the ONF national forestry organisation with many rules too. The local Marie or major can prohibit camping in a commune (like a parish but with real powers, although not legally a blanket ban)

Fire. NO! especially without permission and never in a forest where the penalties are severe (even within 300 metres of a forest, wood etc). Actually for good reason, especially after 2003 and the really bad forest fires wiped out many hundreds of thousand hectares of forest and claimed quite few lives also. There are blanket restrictions on fires of any form outdoors during the summer (as in many other countries) for the same reason so even with permission to camp a fire would most likely be out. Notification of bans are posted on the local Marie or major's office and there is no fixed dates.

This relates to the whole of France not just North or South. My advice if you you want to have the freedom. Having read about some personal stories of how seriously the forestry rangers and police take this it certainly made me think carefully about it.

Also be aware that come September the hunting season starts again and being out and about can be fairly hazardous especially in nice OG or camo gear

On a positive note, I find that although my French is not fluent still, if you approach people and make an effort in speaking even a bit of French (translate some key phrases beforehand etc) then often they will be forthcoming, especially down here in the South. It is typically French that there are many rules yet many people choose to ignore them and find it almost weird that you would ask, but it is the legal way and avoids any potentially akward situations (especially in the south many people speak little English at all and that makes such situations doubly tough). Also remember that it is normal to be more formal when meeting people ( bonjour monsieur/ madam etc) and showing respect for others, especially with older people is the norm.

I don't want to put you off just to let you know the official situation as I understand it If you are heading down this way feel free to pm me for more local info.

 

[Jjv110]

Thanks Moonraker, some good information there. I am from Jersey in the Channel Islands and the situation as far as camping goes is not very good at all. We use very small areas and areas which are on land belonging to friends, and after having used these spots for many years, they have become a bit boring and it feels like camping in the garden! My Mum lives in the south of France near the Italian border but it is very bulit up. The pre alps are in the background but I know how bad the forest fire situation is. I have watched, many times, the aeroplanes plunge into the sea to collect the water to extinguish the fires. Unfortunately most of these are started on purpose to give work to the pilots etc. As usual some stupid people ruin things for everyone else. But from what you say the situation seems worse than I thought. I have also been to the south west, near Hossegor, and there are huge pine forests down there. I was driving my Land Rover and all the people were waving and being very friendly.
The one area I was considering was the Massif Central. I suppose It could be done without a fire but it is not the same. I am aware that we must respect the laws of the country we are in.
Where in France are you? Do you know any decent places in Italy? Totally in the opposite direction, I think Poland is worth exploring.
Thanks again. So basically we just need to ask permission from the local mayor and hope he is in a good mood.

Regards, Julian.

 

[Moonraker]

The one area I was considering was the Massif Central. I suppose It could be done without a fire but it is not the same. I am aware that we must respect the laws of the country we are in.
Where in France are you? Do you know any decent places in Italy? Totally in the opposite direction, I think Poland is worth exploring.
Thanks again. So basically we just need to ask permission from the local mayor and hope he is in a good mood.

Regards, Julian.

Well I basically live at the southern end of the Massif Central so you have superb taste

As too Italy the laws are quite similar and many of the more unspoilt areas of Poland such as the Tatra Mountains which is a national park, the controls are if anything even tougher Mostly to help try to preserve what little is left in Europe which is not taken over or spoilt by overuse. There is another thread right now on this.

Having spent sometime looking at the laws regarding wild camping in Europe the sorts of restrictions are pretty similar where ever you go unless you go up to the Scandinavian countries where certain historical circumstances have put in place the right to access the countryside and camp out. In the rest of Europe it is much the same story of a principle of private ownership rather than public rights.

Like I said above, you do not have to go to the Marie as such ( always useful to check local byelaws and pose the question of course) but go direct to the local farm and just ask the question. Often if you are polite the answer is yes.

One of the great advantages of France is space. There is generally a lot more space to find a bit of solitude and especially down this way much of the land is wooded and sparsely populated still. Also the booze is cheap and food great

Personally, I would just get in the Landie and head off and face these issues as and when you have to. Often it is part of the joy lies in the unknown It is quite a British disease to be too concerned about being 'right & proper' One thing I am gradually shedding over time here.

Que Sera Sera

and if you want more info about the Aveyron department and this part of the Southern Massif Central which is truly one of the less well known spots of France and undiscovered by most tourists, I will be very happy to pass on more info and my door is always open to BCUK members like yourself

 

[tomtom]

welcome aboard

 

[steven andrews]

We use very small areas and areas which are on land belonging to friends, and after having used these spots for many years, they have become a bit boring and it feels like camping in the garden!

Hopefully you only mean the spots - and not the company!
Welcome to BcUK Jefflian..

 

[Keith_Beef]

Good advice from Moonraker; I've not got anything to add to what he wrote about ONF, Town Hall (Mairie), and such.

But he mentioned something about wearing camo gear being a bit iffy...

When the hunting season opens, you really should find out if there is one "closed day" per week in the area you wish to visit. This is often Wednesday, so kids can go on nature walks. If so, you run less of a risk of being shot. But you should think about wearing an orange sash, too.

Every year, there are more than a dozen fatal shooting accidents.

Also, I have read in the press over the past year or so, several mentions of paramilitary, extrmem-right or skinhead groups "camping out in the wilds", "carrying out exercises" or "meeting up with foreign groups". I first read about this in an article about Maxime Bruneri, who took a shot at the French persident (Jacques Chirac) a few years ago, though I recently saw more mentions...

Now, I don't mean that you are likely to bump into any (they are fairly rare, you know). But you might be taken for one, if you are found when there is a story going round about them.

The French press is usually not so hysterical as the British press, but be prepared.


Keith.

 

[Moonraker]

Good advice from Moonraker; I've not got anything to add to what he wrote about ONF, Town Hall (Mairie), and such.

But he mentioned something about wearing camo gear being a bit iffy...

When the hunting season opens, you really should find out if there is one "closed day" per week in the area you wish to visit. This is often Wednesday, so kids can go on nature walks. If so, you run less of a risk of being shot. But you should think about wearing an orange sash, too.

Every year, there are more than a dozen fatal shooting accidents.

Also, I have read in the press over the past year or so, several mentions of paramilitary, extrmem-right or skinhead groups "camping out in the wilds", "carrying out exercises" or "meeting up with foreign groups". I first read about this in an article about Maxime Bruneri, who took a shot at the French persident (Jacques Chirac) a few years ago, though I recently saw more mentions...

Now, I don't mean that you are likely to bump into any (they are fairly rare, you know). But you might be taken for one, if you are found when there is a story going round about them.

The French press is usually not so hysterical as the British press, but be prepared.


Keith.

And good advice from Keith Yes I forgot to say about the non-shoot days which coincides in this department with the kids day off school. Unfortunately the weekends are the busiest days for the chasseurs. Locally the guys are pretty careful and have guidelines about how they organise a shoot but accidents, as Keith says do happen every year. This advice would apply for many other European countries too where the hunting culture is perhaps still strong (including Scandinavia of course). And assume it is the same in the USA? If I am out and about during the hunting season I always wear louder clothes or a orange sash etc.

I don't hunt myself but it is a strong tradition here and very much part of normal life in our village so I feel it is another aspect of the countryside. There are less and less people going though. Even so it was quite a battle for the government to secure the non-shooting day but it reflects the changing realities and demands on the land with the shift from farming to leisure.

 

[Paganwolf]

Ive just scored an 18 acre woodland in france with a small lake, once its all sorted out ill let you know ,as your interested you would be welcome to join us in our French frolics its on the edge of a 50 mile stretch of forest in the Loire Valley its about 3.5 hrs run by car or just over an hour by plane so its just as if not quicker to get to than say cornwall!

 

[Moonraker]

I just checked the official stats.

CAMPAGNE DE CHASSE 2003-2004

L’Office National de la Chasse et de la Faune Sauvage a recensé 203 accidents de chasse dont 29 mortels et 94 très graves. C’est plus que les années précédentes.

Quick translation says that during the hunting season period 2003-2004, ,the national department for hunting and wild animals recorded 203 hunting related accidents (in France), of which 29 were fatal and 94 were very serious. This is an increase on preceding years.

I read that of these, two of those killed were non-hunters (apparently being hit from stray, long distance bullets). Previous years are about the same. Worrying but then put into perspective, 350 people die each day as a result of road accidents in Europe

 

[Mauro]

....
Where in France are you? Do you know any decent places in Italy? ...
Regards, Julian.

Hi Julian,

Last year I have been trekking and bushcrafting in one of the largest wilderness in Italy. It is a little known national park called "Valgrande" (http://www.parcovalgrande.it/Ehome.html ), not far from the swiss border.

I was there in october and was humid and the valleyes are quite high so we coocked on a real fire every morning and evening (actually, I managed to puncture the only gas cartrige we had, so we did not have much choice!)

By the way, no cars are allowed in the hart of the park, even mobile phones do not work (and if you know of the love affair italian have of that thing, you undertand how wild the place is!!!! )

A place I thoroughly reccomend!

Mauro

 

[Keith_Beef]

I just checked the official stats.

Quick translation says that during the hunting season period 2003-2004, ,the national department for hunting and wild animals recorded 203 hunting related accidents (in France), of which 29 were fatal and 94 were very serious. This is an increase on preceding years.

I read that of these, two of those killed were non-hunters (apparently being hit from stray, long distance bullets). Previous years are about the same. Worrying but then put into perspective, 350 people die each day as a result of road accidents in Europe

One story I particulary remember was of a retired gentleman killed by a stray bullet. He was riding a moped along a track through a forest. A hunter shot at a boar. The bullet traversed the boar, being deflected by a bone on the way, before striking the man on the moped, killing him.

Keith.

 

[Moine]

Hi there,

I live (and teach survival) in France. Many good info already. I'll just add my two cents if you don't mind...

1) regarding hunting : 99% of hunting here is performed with dogs. When in the bush, stay far away from the barks and bells, and you'll be fine. Hunters have a pretty bad reputation here, but most of them are careful and responsible.

2) regarding fires : it may be less romantic, but an alcohol burner or gas stove will boil your water quicker anyway -- I always locate small caves and rock overhangs with no vegetation on my hikes. I've regularly built fire there, with abolutely NO RISK OF FIRE, and had no problem with the law. But Moonraker is right, the police and ONF people will be very serious about that, and for a reason.

3) another thing to be aware of : sheep and guard dogs. As the wolves are coming back, shepherds pretty much all have defense dogs with the flocks. Big, white, loud "patous". Those dogs protect the flocks, and they will bark, growl and show teeth if you get too close to the flock they are guarding. They very rarely attack, but if you have a dog, make sure it's not loose and won't go after the sheep... It might hurt a few sheep, and your dog most probably will be ripped to pieces by the patous. If at all possible, stay well away from the flocks anyway. You will do yourself a favor, and the shepherd will greatly appreciate it

4) like pretty much everywhere in the world today, ticks are a real problem in bushy and grassy areas, and so is Lyme disease. Check yourself for ticks at least daily, remove them and disinfect.

5) get yourself a few IGN topo maps (www.ign.fr -- you can also order them on CD)... they are filled with info that will allow you to know when you're in a natural park or on ONF land.

Hope this helps

David

 

[Jjv110]

Hopefully you only mean the spots - and not the company!
Welcome to BcUK Jefflian..

Yes Steve, only the spots!

Thanks everyone, can't wait to get exploring. I have, over the years, tended to wear less and less army clothing as people are more likely to assume we are up to no good. And it is also a good excuse to buy more kit!
I don't like the sound of the skinheads though.

Cheers, Julian.

 

[zambezi]

Ive just scored an 18 acre woodland in france with a small lake, once its all sorted out ill let you know ,as your interested you would be welcome to join us in our French frolics its on the edge of a 50 mile stretch of forest in the Loire Valley its about 3.5 hrs run by car or just over an hour by plane so its just as if not quicker to get to than say cornwall!

J-P

As it happens, a mate of mine owns a small plane. I can see the potential for a wonderful friendship blossoming here...

Vince

 

[Jjv110]

I didn't see that second page.

Paganwolf, that sounds like an amazing area of land you have and I am sure a couple of us would love to meet up some time and enjoy the surroundings.

Mauro, I haven't heard of that natural park before but it sounds like a great place to go and explore. I will be in San Remo so it's not too far. I could take the train.

Thanks again for all the info.

Julian.