Fire design in tiny kelly kettles

[haptalaon]

Hi all!

I am struggling with fire-setting in my small kelly kettle. The space to build the fire is about palm sized, and 1.5 inches deep.

• You've got to get fuel in there, but also enough of a lattice for air to pass through
• you've got to stand fuel up somehow so it doesn't touch the rim so you can put the kettle on the fire pan
• you've got to not knock whatever you've balanced when blowing on the fire & striking sparks
• you've got to get your burning/smouldering fire-starter under your twigs
• you've then got to feed the fire, but without blocking the air holes or smothering the space.

All of this is defeating me, it's a really unforgiving way to learn to start fires (which is already not an easy task!).

Things I'm going to do: get a bigger fire-striker so I can shoot sparks from further away. I feel like the key is learning how to organise a fire for this specific context

What fire lays do you use? Does anyone have a tutorial on lighting these fires specifically?

 

[crosslandkelly]

Hope this helps.

 

[Kadushu]

A scrap of cardboard or a bit of birch bark are usually enough to get the twigs going. Have it poke out the hole so it's easy to light and use a lighter rather than a ferro rod. I light mine with the kettle on the pan.
Really thin twigs will burn away in a minute or 2 so it doesn't matter if they are up the chimney.

 

[Pattree]

I’ve just done it this afternoon without problems. I agree, you lay a lattice. You don’t want sticks under the rim of the kettle. I started mine with a small piece of cotton wool ball in the middle of the lattice.

I have fine shavings of wood cut from the fire sticks in a pile nearby and I have all the wood that I’m going to need for boiling water and then cooking with hobo, ready to hand.

Now - how do you use a ferro rod? Sorry if you know this already but:
Hold the scraper STILL. Hold it close to your tinder. PULL the ferro and the sparks will go where’s you want them.
Sprinkle your flame with shavings (I didn’t use a pencil sharpener today but it’s a good way) and build your fire. As soon as you have anything like a good flame stick the kettle on top and listen to it roar. Drop thin sticks down the chimney well before boiling so they are burned away before you remove the boiling kettle.

Tomorrow I will take some pictures of the operation. Someone else is making dinner tonight. Fuel size is critical for the best boil.

 

[Pattree]

Good morning.



Food is all prepared, kettle is full of water, coffee maker is loaded. All is within reach of my stool.

Now I prep my fuel. There is very little forage up here and I’ll leave that for others. I’ve carried in a couple of lumps of wood.



This is enough to boil the kettle, cook breakfast and wash up. I don’t do fuzz sticks but I do cut wood flakes. Pencil sharpening a twig makes wonderful stuff.

Build a little lattice so that when you add flakes and kindling you don’t drop them on the flame and put it out.

Cotton wool ball at centre.
Scrape a little ferro onto you cotton wool ball then take a grip and pull. (Two pulls this morning - can do better)


Gentle sprinkle of flakes then fine kindling.

Yay Fire - except my bloody finger is in the way.

Kettle on. Add longer wood.

Nearly there, add shorter wood for cooking. Still got loads of wood for cooking

Add Hobo accessory. Porridge on.
All done.

This demo took just three of sticks like the one I was flaking.

Enough wood left that if I’d wanted I could have done sausage and egg. You can do the eggs on just the dying embers.

It’s a working tool like any other. You’ll get it very quickly. Just play with it, take it slow and prep well.

You won’t always be lighting your Kelly Kettle in ideal conditions. Snow everywhere twigs all wet. Bracken stems soaked, wind howling and you're HUNGRY.
I am not the least ashamed to carry a small bottle of meths to get things going when the going is hard.

 

[Pattree]

A SLOW FIRE MORNING.

@haptalaon I think I sensed your frustration and a empathised. Then just to put me in my place, this morning the fire gods gave me a slow fire morning.

None of us get it right all the time. This morning I lost my fire after I’d got my flame going. I tend to beat myself up for doing that but hey - it was a beautiful morning with the mist rising in the valley.

I left my fine tinder out all night and I guess the dew soaked it or a sheep peed on it.

That video above is not a good guide at all. I was horrified when I saw them put the kettle onto the fire with the cork in position. There are TWO signs on the Kettle warning people not to do that. Fortunately I think that KK no longer supply a cork.
The kettle shown is the big one but they still swamped the bucket with tinder. You can be far tidier with your fuel than that even in your little job. It doesn’t matter if the fuel overlaps the rim a just little bit. A wriggle usually solves that one.
I do not face the fire vent into the wind when starting up. Just the opposite. Then when I’m getting a good draught through the flue I turn the fire base so that the back edge of the vent is just catching the wind and I’m creating a vortex in the flue. Very effective.

I never have the handle on the spout side of the kettle except for transit. That’s where you can get boiling water spilling out if you’ve over stoked it (or if I’m faffing with a camera when I should be lifting - see my pic above) You don’t need a glove to lift the kettle if you follow the guidelines.

I’m far far too stiff to get down and blow embers into life from floor level. It’s safer and more effective to use a plate as a fan to blow up your fire.
I REALLY didn’t like that video.

If you don’t like the idea of a helping hand from meths on a slow fire day - then carry a couple of bush candles to start things off.

I’ve had a wonderful four days in the hills above Corwen where nobody bothers me. Me and my kettle kept the koffee and kurry koming.

I hope that very soon you will be getting as much pleasure from your Trekker I am from mine.

 

[jackorion]

This is probably classed as cheating but I just stick a couple of those ‘twisted’ fire starters in the bottom, light one with a lighter, and then drop stuff down the chimney - most of my fuel is chips left over from woodcarving… I use my kettle everyday at work and I can’t be dealing with ferro rods and the like, I just wanna get my brew on!

 

[Pattree]

Whatever works.
I am a fundamental “adequist”.
Perfection can wait.
I use a ferro rod because I find it quick and it can stay in my kit indefinitely requiring no replenishing or special storage. One of my spares has been dangling from a stove bag for at least fifteen years unused.

If you need a coffee and a bit of plutonium will fix it - fix it!

 

[Kadushu]

On the subject of cheating: half the reason I love the Trangia is that you have a little reservoir of meths which can aid lighting camp fires even if you're not using the alcohol stove itself.

 

[Pattree]

There ain’t no such thing as cheating. If it will do then it will do.

 

[Herman30]

I can´t be bothered with ferro rod or any other traditional fire lighting method.
Stormmatches, alcogel and Esbit tablets are my methods of lighting a fire.

 

[daveO]

I’m far far too stiff to get down and blow embers into life from floor level. It’s safer and more effective to use a plate as a fan to blow up your fire.

If you don't already have a 'pocket bellows' then I can highly recommend one for smaller kettles. I used to have bad days with my Mkettle and that little thing really helped keep it going.

 

[Pattree]

Thanks @daveO I don’t often need one, maybe occasionally when I’m swapping from boiling to cooking and I’ve let it burn down.
I’ve already got the steel plates in my kit. If it needed to be fanned on a regular basis, I’d say it had a design failure.

I’m not recommending this!!!!!!!
The easiest way is to pick up the fire bucket with my pot grippers and waft it gently backwards and forwards.

 

[haptalaon]

Thank you for thinking of me and my poor fires while off on adventure! It looks marvellous out there. The pictures really help get a mental image of what my setup should be.

Some followup questions if that's ok

Scrape a little ferro onto you cotton wool ball then take a grip and pull.

Am I understanding this right - the goal is to get a bit of the ferro rod off and onto the cotton wool ball, before trying to strike a spark?

That video above is not a good guide at all.

I didn't like that they were lighting it straight on the ground, in and amongst all that grass - that's a proper fire waiting to happen

I was horrified when I saw them put the kettle onto the fire with the cork in position. There are TWO signs on the Kettle warning people not to do that. Fortunately I think that KK no longer supply a cork.

What is the deal about the cork? I've seen the label on the kettle, but the people I know all leave the cork in & cut a little wedge for it to act as an air hole.

(Is doing this why my kettle is leaking from under the spout, due to additional pressure? I keep getting a dribble of water down the side and into the fire pan, which does NOT help matters)

And another thing I was wondering today: how high am I supposed to fill it? to just under the spout? And how long should I leave the water on the boil for? I keep removing it more or less straight away, but the water seems to be kinda cold.

Fire update from my garden today:

• I can get a spark onto cotton or cotton-soaked-in-paraffin to catch fire, tho in the latter case it seems pretty clear that the fire is going well just as long as the paraffin is burning
• The local dead grass is really good as tinder. I found that stuffing more of it down the chimney kept the fire going, more effectively than twigs
• I have a large stash of standing dead twigs from doing the hedges over winter, but it occurs to me they may be damp because I stored them in my house.
• My fires atm seem to be like a whoosh of flame, then smouldering, but without building any 'body' in between
• Managed to get the kettle boiled eventually!
• The goal was to put the boiling water in a pan with pasta, and then do the final pasta cook over the hobo stove - but no luck keeping the hobo fire going at a good, consistent boil. I gave up before trying the pasta sauce and retreated inside to the hob

 

[Pattree]

Am I understanding this right - the goal is to get a bit of the ferro rod off and onto the cotton wool ball, before trying to strike a spark?

Not quite. Gently scrape a little ferro dust into the cotton wool before the big spark.
A piece of hacksaw blade makes a good scraper (remove paint) the teeth for dust and the back for the spark.

What is the deal about the cork? I've seen the label on the kettle, but the people I know all leave the cork in & cut a little wedge for it to act as an air hole.

Because it can explode!!!! The steam will force the cork out under pressure and spray boiling water all over the shop. It can be enough to throw the Kettle backwards and spray an arc across your camp site. There is no need for a cork, it wouldn’t improve boil times. I never use anything in the spout - see my pictures.

I keep getting a dribble of water down the side and into the fire pan, which does NOT help matters)

And another thing I was wondering today: how high am I supposed to fill it? to just under the spout? And how long should I leave the water on the boil for? I keep removing it more or less straight away, but the water seems to be kinda cold.

It should not leak from anywhere! If it’s new, take it back to the supplier.
If you are filling it until it overflows then it might not be a leak, just the water expanding as it heats and dribbling from the spout and down the side. That often happens and it’s no big thing, just a fizz of steam and it’s gone. Do a cold check.

Fill it to the top of the cylinder before it slopes. I just fill it till it dribbles - obviously not when it’s on the fire.

“Water seems cold” That’s very odd. You should see and feel it bumping when it’s boiling. Often water comes out of the spout.
I remove it straight away as it can chuck out boiling water when it gets excited. See my picture above. Lift it sideways off the bucket. If you lift it backwards you could dump water straight into your fire like the twonk in the video.

If you use your Kettle in a hard water area, definitely don’t let it boil long. Shift it straight away. It’s easy enough to shift lime scale but who wants to?

My fires atm seem to be like a whoosh of flame, then smouldering, but without building any 'body' in between

It’s all a question of learning to use the tool and the fuel You sound as if you are well on your way. Enjoy experimenting.

Fuel types and size is the key. Look at my pictures above. I am using hardwood -“dunno” lumber domestic logs cut to roughly 25-30mm square with a hatchet then split down to 10mm square using secateurs which I find very handy in camp.

You can easily boil water with hay, straw, bracken or newspaper (rolled tight) but the Hobo needs something more substantial. You might want to fan the fire with a plastic or steel plate just to get the new wood going when you swap to the Hobo. Eventually you will know when to put in fresh short wood just before the boil so it’s going well for cooking when you remove the Kettle.

Keep experimenting.
Don’t sweat it, just play.

pee ess. I’d make pasta on the Hobo from cold. Until you’re used to it: boil a kettle first to get a bottom in the fire. Eventually you will sometimes use the Hobo without the kettle.

All this makes the KK seem complicated and it isn’t. You’ll get used to it and you’ll get breakfast in ten minutes just as many thousands of storm kettle users of all makes do.

 

[Pattree]

Sitting in my garden playing when there are loads of chores to do.
I didn’t use the Kettle at all, just the Hobo accessory.


I’m almost certain your issues are fuel related. I tried a few twigs today but they are deep damp. I’d never start a fire with them.

While you are practicing, buy yourself (or otherwise obtain) some domestic fuel logs. Chop them up and develop your own system.
As I’ve already said above, the Kettle is the best fan to get a fire going but it isn’t necessary.

I’ll shut up now and drink my coffee. Have a go for a while then ask any questions you like.

Best,
Pat.