Emphasis on knife use

[AuldJum]

I was asked to help teach knife sharpening to some folks last week, a group of 9 guys.

Naturally being guys they all thought they were proficient with a knife for bushcraft purposes.

So naturally i asked them to knock up a try stick, after demonstrating all the cuts, they concluded it was simple then proceeded to fail miserably.

Thinking that may have been slightly difficult i got them to make some good feathersticks, which resulted in about 8 deep cuts down a piece of wood.

Later i tried to look up some knife skill videos, found a few but probably 99.999 % were knife reviews, with emphasis on batoning capabilities and not much in the way of skill.

Do you think theres too much emphasis on which knife to have and not how to use it?

I would consider a decent level of aptitude with a knife to be integral to our hobby.

 

[pastymuncher]

It's a bit like driving, just because someone owns a Ferrari doesn't mean they can drive like Schumacher.
Being proficient with tools, or anything for that matter, takes time, patience, practice and understanding.

Seems a lot of people change their kit every 5 minutes because "it" doesn't work correctly, rather than looking at themselves.
e.g. I know a golfer who, if he has a bad round, will buy a new set of clubs because it's obviously the clubs fault

 

[Wayland]

Very true...

 

[maddave]

We had a term in the mob. "All the gear and no idea"

 

[sandbender]

I was reminded of this earlier post...

I'm thinking of buying this knife,

basically I love Bear, can't get enough of him,

but would the fact that the knife is not full tang put you off?

Would I be better saving for a Fallkniven F1?

Have a long think about what you are going to use your knife for.
Think about the knife skills needed for 'bushcraft' or 'woodcraft'.
Get down to your library and order up a copy of Ray Mears's 'Outdoor Survival Handbook' or Mors Kochanski's 'Bushcraft: Outdoor Skills and Wilderness Survival', both of these titles will give you some idea of what you can accomplish with the right skills.

Also look at this earlier thread about the Mors Kochanski 'Try Stick'.

There isn't a perfect knife for everyone, however by determining what you actually want to achieve with your knife, you will be able to make a more informed choice.

 

[TomBartlett]

There isn't the perfect knife, but looking for it sure is fun.

 

[robin wood]

Yes I couldn't agree more. Some of the most accomplished knife users I have ever seen have used incredibly dodgy tools. I think of Ion Constantin a Romanian Gypsy spooncarver who used a knife he could sharpen with a file, very soft yet with his skill level he would make most UK professionals look like poor amateurs. [video=youtube;D7yipq2xd7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7yipq2xd7o[/video]
César Newashish in the film César's bark canoe is another example of sublime skills with very basic cheap tools. http://www.nfb.ca/film/Cesars_Bark_Canoe/

 

[Hoodoo]

Do you think theres too much emphasis on which knife to have and not how to use it?

It transcends bushcraft and it's common in the survival and knife communities. Evidently all it takes to become an expert on knives is to buy one and "review" it on ewetube.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Your not wrong! the only benefit of the you tube vid is to see the knife you might like in some ones hand moving, it can be a little hard to get a good sense of size from a still pic, other than that, I wouldn't use you tube for instruction of any kind any how! I do silly reviews, from my perspective, joe dude who likes knives, just to give my opinion of something I might like, I think some peeps get caught up and feel the need to become all stoic and sage about their views, who cares, lighten up and have laugh this is not a serious subject!

 

[Siberianfury]

its also about knowing the wood you are cutting, diffrent wood reacts diffrently to the same sharp blade. by diffrent i mean how dry is is, what species is being used ect.

there are facotrs that make a knife good for bushcraft EG grind, temper, handle shape, size, thickness and profile. however most of it is down to the experience of the user.

im used to high scandi grinds with an avarage thickness of 3.5mm, if you gave me a full convex with a 6mm blade i wouldnt be as comfortable using the tool and would take a while to adjust to it.

 

[Hoodoo]

Your not wrong! the only benefit of the you tube vid is to see the knife you might like in some ones hand moving, it can be a little hard to get a good sense of size from a still pic, other than that, I wouldn't use you tube for instruction of any kind any how! I do silly reviews, from my perspective, joe dude who likes knives, just to give my opinion of something I might like, I think some peeps get caught up and feel the need to become all stoic and sage about their views, who cares, lighten up and have laugh this is not a serious subject!

Southey, your reviews are exceptional. They are what they are. The BS reviews are easy to spot. The "wisdom" goes beyond the skill and knowledge. The thing about video reviews is that it's easy to parrot what you've read on the forums, but it's impossible to demonstrate a skill that doesn't exist.

 

[johnnythefox]

Yes I couldn't agree more. Some of the most accomplished knife users I have ever seen have used incredibly dodgy tools. I think of Ion Constantin a Romanian Gypsy spooncarver who used a knife he could sharpen with a file, very soft yet with his skill level he would make most UK professionals look like poor amateurs. [video=youtube;D7yipq2xd7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7yipq2xd7o[/video]
César Newashish in the film César's bark canoe is another example of sublime skills with very basic cheap tools. http://www.nfb.ca/film/Cesars_Bark_Canoe/

now thats a skill

 

[outdoorpaddy]

I absolutely agree. On my woodlore fundamental course, one of the three instructors was using an old carbon steel mora clipper that looked like it had seen better days. He didn't really care that it didnt have wood from an almost extinct species and that the blade wasn't hand made, he used it because it took a good edge and cut when it was supposed to cut and he had the skill to use it. The other two instructors were using SWC blades and when one of them asked to see my knife (mora bushcraft force) he said he had never seen that model before. I was really surprised that he hadn't seen it before, but then I realised, he uses a knife that works for him and he doesn't need to worry about getting another one until his current knife is completely unusable. The quality of the blade doesn't matter its the skill behind it that has the value.

outdoorpaddy

 

[santaman2000]

I suppose it depends on just what you use your knife for (as has already been mentioned) I rarely if ever cut wood with mine (apart from occassionally peeling bark off a stick) so I don't especially care how well it does that. And I NEVER have batoned in my life! My knife (in the woods anyway, not at work) is used for cutting lines and strings, cleaning horses hooves, dressing fish and game, slicing meat or other food stuffs, etc.

If I want to cut wood I get an axe, hatchet, or machete (I suppose tecnicaly a machete is a knife but I think we're discussing folders or small fixed blades)

 

[Samon]

We had a term in the mob. "All the gear and no idea"

haha that sums up alot of people around these days!

I think it's partly due to the marketing of knives though and the fact there is such a massive choice for people to spend their extra money on.

What bothers me is when people meticulously go on about blade hardness, grinds and materials like a bunch of snobs. I can appreciate good steel that holds an edge but some take it too far.

 

[Siberianfury]

some people are knife geeks, myself included, i like to make a knife to be the best it can possibly be for me, just because, thats how i like it.

then loads of people see a knife just as a very useful tool, in the same manner most people would see a screwdriver, i envy them realy, its alot easier to focus on other things in bushcraft
and alot cheaper.

 

[3bears]

I'll be the 1st to admit while I can carve reasonably well I'd still like to learn more in the way of 'technique' with knife use

 

[santaman2000]

some people are knife geeks, myself included, i like to make a knife to be the best it can possibly be for me, just because, thats how i like it.

then loads of people see a knife just as a very useful tool, in the same manner most people would see a screwdriver...

LOL. I was an aircraft mechanic long enough that I also feel a bit of a snobbery about most hand tools. I'll use whatever is issued but when buying my own I'll almost always choose either Craftsman or Snap-On.

 

[John Fenna]

I realy like knives and apreciate the sheer art of many knives I see.
However - the knives I use most often from choice would scare some "knife snobs" half to death
Pakistani Damascus, shortened and re shaped (not too evenly...) comercial blades and deeply patinated carbon seem to be features of the knives that I have worked up for myself to the point that they are right for me.
I still test out lots of other blades (and love doing so) and find some good, some OK and some .... not for me
The point is that the knives I realy love using have been modded to do what I want them to do, after years of trying various things/bells/whistles/steels/handles - one of my favourites is a manky looking Mora with a stacked wooden handle that swells and shrinks in different ways acording to the weather!
I recommend that folk try a Try Stick to get the feel of any knifes ease of use, plus play with meat, hide, cordage etc if those materials might show up on your knife work practices.
During most knife tests that I perform I often carve a Woodspirit type head as well as all the other little projects that show how easy/hard/robust the knife is to use.
The look of a knife is secondary to function in my eyes and the technical gubbins comes a poor third.
But I can sit and admire a knife for hours

 

[robin wood]

then loads of people see a knife just as a very useful tool, in the same manner most people would see a screwdriver, i envy them realy, its alot easier to focus on other things in bushcraft
and alot cheaper.

I would disagree with that. I think it is far easier to focus on the hardware of the hobby than the skills which is why folk do it. Any half intelligent person can learn enough to be an excellent armchair knife expert in one evening on the internet. Learning skills takes far longer and there are not easy shortcuts.

"Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily." Johann Friedrich von Schiller