Charing natural tinders to take a spark?

[Stanleythecat]

Following on from the natural tinder thread below, can anyone advise on how I might go about charing natural tinders so that they might take a colder spark from a flint and steel?

Sorry, on a bit of a quest at the moment!

Thanks

Leo

 

[Wayland]

An easy but modern method, is to cut both ends off a tin can, squash it flat with your tinder in the middle, then crimp the edges over at the ends with a pair of pliers.

Chuck into a fire until red hot, remove, allow to cool and then open up.

Robert is your dad's brother.

 

[Tadpole]

Same as charcloth, (Sweet tin on the fire) I would guess, I used that method for cat tail fluff, and when it was first done, just waving a bit of flint and steel near it was enough to get it going, one warning though it is really fragile, so rather than a pinch or two on top of the flint, I opted for dropping sparks onto it using my Mike Ameling (MHRIP) Viking shaped steel. Worked really well. I’m sure other tinder’s would be as good providing you adjust the cooking time and the size of the hole in the tin

 

[British Red]

Shoe polish or air rifle pellet tins work great. My natural tinder of choice for charring is punk wood. I think the charring generally dries it out too, but in effect you get a tiny charcoal kiln. It catches a spark really well, is abundant and simple to process.

 

[The Big Lebowski]

Interesting Red... Might give that a go sometime soon.

al.

 

[Bigfoot]

Punk wood - I had to Google that. The stuff you learn in here

 

[badgeringtim]

Generally I like using natural tinders, but if you have to start processing them like char cloth i start to wonder why not just use char cloth. Which if anyone has not tried it is thy mutts nuts!

Having said that i reckon I'll start having a play - thinking thistle down and bullrush are abundant where they occur.
Wonder if you could char dry grasses by holding them close to a flame and part singe them - that could be effective..

Will watch with interest

 

[British Red]

The reason I char punk wood is that I can replenish my tinder on an extended trip rather than burn my boxers

 

[Stanleythecat]

My reasons are about plant knowledge really, I quite like to think I can gather these bits and bobs myself rather than find a source of cloth with has already been processed once... in to cloth!

Thanks for the advice, another question then. When I make charcoal there comes a point where I have to shut the burn down to stop the charred wood from combusting and leaving me a pile of ash. We block up the ports and chimneys and starve the kiln of oxygen. Why doesn't the tinder in the tin just burn up and turn in to ash?

And where can I see one of these viking shaped steels!!!

Thanks again for your posts.

Leo

 

[British Red]

Talk to Launditch1 on here for a striker.

I don't think a tin builds enough heat to combust the char - but it can't hurt to block the exhaust

 

[lannyman8]

a more natural way of charing would be to cover in sand about 1" and then build a fire on top the heat chars the item such as punk wood, let the fire die down and carefully remove the sand to reveal the chared wood or charcoal......

i have never tried it my self but thats what i would use.....

regards..

chris.................................................................

 

[Wayland]

A clay pot set upside down with it's lip in the earth before the fire is built is an old way of doing it too.

 

[Stanleythecat]

That sounds like a great idea Wayland, perhaps a more portable solution to the sand option too. Presumably the air within the pot it enough to allow it to char a little but runs out at the critical moment.

 

[lannyman8]

when making "charing" items such as cloth you need no air at all. when heated in the tin the item starts to burn, this is all the crud and rubbish other than carbon, this rubbish turns into a gas due to the heat, this gas normaly catches fire and burns off, the only reason you need an exaust is to let out this gas but a very small crack or slit would be fine.........

when all the rubbish has burned of remove from the heat, ensure no air/oxygen can get to the "chared" item, if this happens it will carry on burning, just like a piece of bbq charcoal, no matter what it is made from.....

sand was just an example you could use normal mud just as easy, as long as it it not a peaty soil which will burn you would be fine.......... i just said about the sand as you wanted a natural way of doing the job, you also said you did not want to process any thing, (like cloth) so i thought the clay pot would be out??????? also with the sand/mud idea you dont need to carry any thing at all appart from your flint and steel.....

i hope this helps you understand the process a bit better......

sorry for the rant.....lol.....

chris........................................................................

 

[badgeringtim]

A couple of thoughts,
Surely when making char cloth one of the reasons it doesnt turn to ash is because you remove it from the heat source and its usually a small tin etc so doesnt hold much heat. Interestingly last time i did it i let the emmissions from the small vent burn for some time - and it didnt burn the charcloth as i thought it might so i assume these are just the volotiles catching. As said above its actually a subtly different process to charcoal ie it isnt actualy combusted at all.

Im with you on the liking to be able to do things in the field, but i was wondering how long you go out and about if you neded to replenish your charcloth with ur boxers! surely a piece a few inches will make many, many fires (erm of charcloth.. not boxers..)

Im keen to have a play with punk wood thugh - i understand this is just broken down rotted fiberouse wood (the tye you might use in a beekepers smoker).

 

[lannyman8]

charcoal is done the same way as charcloth but on a bigger scale, earth and clods of grass are used to cover the wood instead of a big tin, if you like....thats the old way of doing it, you can use a 50 gal drum to make charcoal in the same way......

the reason the cloth, coa,l what ever is inside does not turn to ash is because, the lack of air stops it from burning, but the heat still "chars" the item.....

the smoke given off is the "volotiles" and or "crud/rubbish" burning off......

i think chared punk would be very good for taking a cooler spark, ie flint and steel...... you could make a test batch in your charcloth tin just to try it out......

let us all know how you get on with it badgeringtim......

chris...................................

 

[Stanleythecat]

when making "charing" items such as cloth you need no air at all. when heated in the tin the item starts to burn, this is all the crud and rubbish other than carbon, this rubbish turns into a gas due to the heat, this gas normaly catches fire and burns off, the only reason you need an exaust is to let out this gas but a very small crack or slit would be fine.........

when all the rubbish has burned of remove from the heat, ensure no air/oxygen can get to the "chared" item, if this happens it will carry on burning, just like a piece of bbq charcoal, no matter what it is made from.....

sand was just an example you could use normal mud just as easy, as long as it it not a peaty soil which will burn you would be fine.......... i just said about the sand as you wanted a natural way of doing the job, you also said you did not want to process any thing, (like cloth) so i thought the clay pot would be out??????? also with the sand/mud idea you dont need to carry any thing at all appart from your flint and steel.....

i hope this helps you understand the process a bit better......

sorry for the rant.....lol.....

chris........................................................................

Sorry Chris, wasn't undervaluing your post I just looked at what the ground conditions were like here at the moment along with a distinct lack of available sand and thought the pot might answer a few questions. Having read your post on charcoal it reminded me of a type of charcoal kiln other to the one we use in the woods (ring kiln) called a retort kiln. This is pretty much like an oven where there is an external heat source to char the wood rather than burning the wood itself. The benefits of this are that all of the materials that are sweated out can be collected and fractionally distilled to produce things like acetates, ethers and creosote. I don't know how the air is regulated in a retort but the pot/tin and sand method are the same really, the heat source is external to the material being chared.

Thanks again.

Leo

 

[lannyman8]

no probs Leo, i did rant like an old woman for bit mate sorry, i did not mean to be offencive or rood.........

let us know how you get on please mate...

chris........

 

[Stanleythecat]

Ha! I'm just grateful you took the time to share your knowledge and respond to my post buddy.


Leo

 

[lannyman8]

no probs Leo, ans sorry again......

chris.............................