American Indian Contributions to the World.

[sandbender]

"...had developed a system of interlocking stone masonry that withstood the earthquakes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that was possible with European, Asian, or African masonry at the time..."

Sort of, the stonework of Incan buildings was placed together very precisely and the walls of larger structures usually had a gentle incline inwards which made for a very stable structure.

In Roman and some Greek buildings the stones were placed close together and then iron pins were hammered into the joins so that the blocks wouldn't slide around during an earthquake.

Iron was in demand during the dark ages and many of those pins were chiselled out which is why buildings like the colosseum have partially collapsed.

Also, concrete.

 

[santaman2000]

.....I think the oldest known dwellings in europe were found recently in Yorkshire, which looked very much like the native Americans Tipis. That prof. Alice Roberts was on TV recently showing them.

Interesting. I had seen other accounts of teepees being used in Eurasia also. Is Yorkshire that windy though? That's the reason the teepee was developed; it's conical shape could withstand the constant prairie winds.

Sort of, the stonework of Incan buildings was placed together very precisely and the walls of larger structures usually had a gentle incline inwards which made for a very stable structure.

In Roman and some Greek buildings the stones were placed close together and then iron pins were hammered into the joins so that the blocks wouldn't slide around during an earthquake.

Iron was in demand during the dark ages and many of those pins were chiselled out which is why buildings like the colosseum have partially collapsed.

Also, concrete.

Thanks. Iron reinforced masonry sounds closer to what California is mandating today (although they now used synthetics) However, concrete really isn't that great. It's neither earthquake resistant nor as long lasting as proper stone masonry.

 

[santaman2000]

The original was what had they contributed. Of course they survived, because they were still there and many thrived. Problem is that it appears that many had fitted into niches and were vulnerable to disease among buffalo or change in migration pattern of salmon or caribou etc. Europeans did disrupt and many were unable to adapt, or, to be fair, were not allowed to adapt.

I think we might be closer to agreeing than not TBH. However I'd think that the Incan, Mayan, and Aztec empires were a bit more than just "surviving." Also the agrarian cultures of most of the eastern peoples.

You raise an interesting point regarding what they "contributed." Yeah, we've been talking about things they developed and used themselves rather than things the rest of the world learned from them. I suppose the crops they'd developed (particularly corn) that had been previously unknown in Europe or Asia might well be considered. Art might be considered but bear in mind that that "contribution" was limited by the Conquistadors destroying most of the art they found, especially if it was something that could me melted down for the gold or silver.

 

[sunndog]

In Roman and some Greek buildings

Gonna have to stop you there......seems those two don't count

 

[sandbender]

I"...concrete really isn't that great. It's neither earthquake resistant nor as long lasting as proper stone masonry..."

That, we now know, is because we've been doing it wrong, Roman concrete was much stronger than the stuff we've been throwing up. The concrete for the forty odd meter Pantheon dome was poured around about 100 AD.

Roman Concrete.

Cedar, Hillary Stewart l

I've just read that she died last year, she produced some remarkable books, ones well worth searching out.

 

[santaman2000]

That, we now know, is because we've been doing it wrong, Roman concrete was much stronger than the stuff we've been throwing up. The concrete for the forty odd meter Pantheon dome was poured around about 100 AD.

Roman Concrete.

......

Yeah I know about Roman concrete and it's antiquity. But are those structures in high intensity earthquake zones?

 

[dewi]

Yeah I know about Roman concrete and it's antiquity. But are those structures in high intensity earthquake zones?

Yup, comparable to the earthquakes in South America... Italy have had some biguns throughout the ages.

 

[santaman2000]

Yup, comparable to the earthquakes in South America... Italy have had some biguns throughout the ages.

Interesting.

 

[Dave]

Interesting. I had seen other accounts of teepees being used in Eurasia also. Is Yorkshire that windy though? That's the reason the teepee was developed; it's conical shape could withstand the constant prairie winds.
.

I think they were probably thatched Tipi's, a precursor to the roundhouse, with wooden floors.

This is a CGI of what that part of Yorkshire would have looked like 11,000 years ago. You can see the coracles in front of the tipis. Which were spread out around the lake. A thriving community of hunter gatherers. Its all farmland today. No lake or trees.
But there have been some very interesting finds around there. For instance, thousands of years later, the only full chariot burial, of a celtic tribe, in the UK, swords etc.

[video=vimeo;66913559]https://vimeo.com/66913559[/video]

A short video fly-through the Mesolithic landscape of Lake Flixton, Vale of Pickering, North Yorkshire, England. Ongoing excavations at Star Carr and Flixton Island are the current manifestation of research since the 1950s. This CGI video incorporates recordings of what the the post-glacial landscape may have sounded like 11,000 years ago, when hunter-gatherers shared their environment with wild ox, bears, beavers, horses, boar, wolves and a hazelnut or two.

 

[Robson Valley]

Bedtime reading:
Pacific Northwest: Cedar by Hillary Stewart. Douglas & McIntyre, 1984. ISBN 978-1-55054-406-0
This is a well documented and illustrated account of the uses for the iconic tree of the PacNW: Western Red Cedar (Thuja plicata).

East of the Rockies (predominately) Wildwood Wisdom by Ellsworth Jaeger Shelter Publications. This is a 1992 reprint of the 1945 volume. ISBN 978-0-936070-12-4
Jaeger was a museum director who colllected much evidence of the daily lives of native peoples. Those things are described and illustrated in 491 pages.

 

[Tengu]

You had to like Hazelnuts back then.

The Romans had concrete, and more importantly, they knew how to make it into stylish buildings...

 

[boatman]

Just got this on Star Carr from a time when you bushcrafted to live in the Mesolithic.
http://www.archaeologyuk.org/books/milner2013

 

[Robson Valley]

The Inca still freeze dry vegetables. Got any Neandrethals who ever figured that out? Huh?

 

[Toddy]

No idea, but isotopic analysis of Neandethal remains shows that they were carnivorous. By the time early HSS co-existed with them it appears that their diet was changing.

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/38/16034.full

M

 

[Robson Valley]

Must admit: the increasing sophistication of our analytical technologies lets the bones speak to us. Very interesting.

 

[boatman]

Isn't the Inca technigue dependent on high altitude boiling point of water is lower, allowing sublimation of moisture from veg and the mummification of those murdered children?

 

[Robson Valley]

After washing, the Inca leave the veg, potatoes in particular, spread out on dry mountain sides to freeze. True, sublimation does the rest. I see it happening in my front yard with temps as high as -5C. I'll do a really poor job of shovelling the side walks and watch sublimation do the rest!

I can't attach my opinion of human sacrifice to what the Inca believed in that day and time. Living slaves were used as boat rollers on the beaches of the Pacific Northwest Coast for the great 40-60' western red cedar ocean boats. But nobody dwells upon it, these days.

 

[boatman]

I can't attach my opinion of human sacrifice to what the Inca believed in that day and time. Living slaves were used as boat rollers on the beaches of the Pacific Northwest Coast for the great 40-60' western red cedar ocean boats. But nobody dwells upon it, these days.

Of course they don't because it would be wrong to keep harping on about wrongs done to people in the past......Oh Wait

 

[Goatboy]

Of course they don't because it would be wrong to keep harping on about wrongs done to people in the past......Oh Wait

:thumbup:

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[forrestdweller]

Admiral Zheng would logically have gone places he knew there were civilisations he could impress with his fancy ships.

I dont think it was him, I read something about sea slug collecting? Cant remember.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makassan_contact_with_Australia

Ha! shows how good my memory is...Not China...but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baijini

The First Briton to visit Australia was Willam Dampier. (Who enjoyed meeting new people but was not terribly impressed by either the place or the natives...this was about 1600, I think)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dampier

there is still a town and peninsula named after him [see post sixty-five]- he landed in OZ in sixteen ninety-nine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duyfken this -compared to admiral zhengs ships- nutshell was the first recorded european landing in OZ. i*ve also heard some rumors about polynesian[maori] landings in OZ; in WWII some rare coins from an islamic east african kingdom were found on a remote beach in OZ, too

the aborigines were using various types of spearthrowers for millenia by then without any contact to the americas.....