4 Season Sleeping - Weight vs Warm vs Size - The old debate

[lamper]

First off apologies for yet another thread about this, but rather than extending another thread (most of which have already read on here), I thought I would create my own as I have some specific questions I need to ask.

I'm not that fussed if it is either down or synthetic, but I do want best bag I can get.

I am a UK camper mostly so mainly dealing with temps down to about -7 (havent been to North Scotland so if this warmth needs adjusting, please let me know). I plan on going away to other climates, but no sure where yet.

I basically want to be able to camp all year round in Europe or US with a bag that is small and weight 1kg ish or less. I should state the 1kg ish is very ish. 1.2 ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM! - Am I dreaming?

Bags in question (though this list is only my own and I am very open to other ideas - notice I cant find a synthetic bag that fits this....)

• Alpkit Pipe Deram 600 - Light/Cheap/ seems to pack small but cant confirm - NOT AVAILABLE UNITL MARCH 2010! - http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16416&category_id=253 - £140
• Alpkit Pipe Deram 800 - Light ish /Cheap/ seems to pack small but cant confirm - might be over warm at -17 and its over 1kg
  - http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16417&category_id=253 - £160
  
  
• Marmot Helium Reg - Light - Great bag (or so I have read) but expensive - http://marmot.com/fall_2009/equipment/sleeping_bags/ultralight/helium_reg/info/details - £220

All comments wanted, but please only comment offering either personal experience of the bags listed of an alternative.

Personal
---------------------------
Height: 5, 11
Build: Slim to Average (actually very similar to Gailainne - it would appear)

Shelters
--------------------
MSR Hubba Bubba (2 man ultralite tent)
DD travel hammock and tarp - could use hammock as bivi as well
Bivi Bag - dont have one, but would consider it instead of hammock, but would need to be a one that is away from your face.

Underneath
---------------------
Foam mat - standard £5 jobbie
Thermarest Prolite 3
All wether space blanket - (http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toy...ket-Pack-of-2/4043974/product.html?cid=133635) - awesome piece of kit!

Clothes
---------------
Dont like to wear alot when sleeping, boxers and t-shirt
If cold, will wear thermals (only 1 layer though) and wolly hat.

Rucsack
-----------------
Berghaus 35+8 freeflow - would ideally like to be able to use this for up to 3 days
Karrimore SF 75 - Winter/bushcraft (because of extra tools) - longer than 3 days.

 

[big_swede]

Roberts.pl offers hi-quality bags for a decent price. I can recommend them. No prices on their site, so you'll have to mail them. Custom jobs available too.

 

[lamper]

legend - cheers mate, ill give them a bell.

 

[Grooveski]

You should pop into a few shops and try a bunch out. Sizes vary and some fit better than others. Lets you see how all the different baffles, footwells and zips feel too.

Way I saw it was that it'd been twenty years since I'd bought a winter bag so if this was going to be it for the next twenty I wanted to see it first. You don't have to buy in the shops, you can always come away and look for a deal online.
None of the three shops I asked in had any problem with me kicking off my shoes and snuggling down on a thermarest. One of them even had a wee cobbled platform just for the job.

Not so easy with Snugpack I know(a lot of the folk I've camped with recently have them so I'd already checked them out).

Tried the Helium and if weight had been an issue it'd have been right up the list, felt like a very nice bag(if a little whispy - felt a bit like it wasn't really there). Went for a Never Summer instead which doesn't meet any of your requirements, price had a lot to do with it.

 

[lamper]

I do intented to tour the shops prior to buying.

I'm interested in your overall experience on marmot. I looked at the never winter and apart from the weight its a sick bag. If i wasnt being a gram weenie it would be near the top. This may be the case if i need to increase my options.

So, what do you think of marmot? Am i in safe hands if i go with the helium - from a manufacutres point of view.

(sorry for typing. On iphone on the train)

 

[Grooveski]

You're asking the wrong person. I liked the look of both those Marmot down bags and one of their synthetics.
But also liked the look of a couple of the Rab bags, they were a little tighter somewhere though
...and one of the snugpacks.
....and a bunch of others.

I went to Keswick for the afternoon, rummaged around and went on fit and feel.
Was only a couple of months ago though. Have been hot and cosy so far but we're only a few nights in.
Cosier than a synthetic that hasn't puffed up in a decade, a piece of junk summer bag, two broken zips and all your clothes, that's for sure.
Cosier than the competition? No idea, some of them felt pretty cosy.

 

[Wilderbeast]

I have a mountain equipment classic, it's down and simply fantastic plus off ebay they're about £100 flat!

 

[Gailainne]

I have a pipe dream 600 bought it last year when they came back in stock, excellent bag, I'm 5' 10" and 11.5 st so fairly average, I had room length wise and at the shoulders, used it at the new year meet at Comriecroft in a hammock and was toasty (with an underblanket) somewhere between -5 and -8 deg c, for the money I think its a very good bag.

Cheers

Stephen

 

[Kerne]

I have a pipe dream 400 which I use for 2/3 seasons and a Mountain equipment lightline for colder weather. Both good (and I sleep cold!) A higher spec Pipe dream might be a good bet.

 

[East Coaster]

Just a thought, but have you considered combining a sleeping bag liner or a light weight bivi bag to extend the temperature range of a bag. It would open up a wider choice of bags for you and it would give you a more versatile set up to use according to the temps you encounter.

 

[scanker]

Some good advice already in the thread, particularly that above about a liner/bivi, especially as you intend to use one bag all year - you may be a little warm in the summer, when you may just be able to use your liner.

I've an Alpkit Alpine Dream 600. It's the predecessor to the pipedream I think. AFAI remember it was rated to -5C and I think that was fairly conservative. That said, when the forecast is for less than -5C, I'm taking my army arctic bag!

You don't mention what size you are. You'd have to check, but Alpkit used to do runs of sleeping bags in different lengths but with the same weight of fill, so if you were short, you'd get extra insulation. Worth checking. I rate Alpkit stuff very highly.

Finally, I'd give at least as much consideration to what's underneath you as to your choice of sleeping bag. Down mat, open cell, closed cell - it makes a lot of difference. Also what clothing you wear whilst sleeping, tent, tarp or hammock etc etc. Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs.

Another finally, -5C to -7C, is fairly common down here in winter. The coldest I've been is in Edinburgh when the temperature was -12C or something. Colder with the wind too. You can bet it was lot colder up in the hills at the time!

 

[drewdunnrespect]

stuff this messing around why not just have done with warmth and comfort and by the snugpack antarctic RE goes down to minus 50 best bit of kit i have ever had

 

[Graham_S]

stuff this messing around why not just have done with warmth and comfort and by the snugpack antarctic RE goes down to minus 50 best bit of kit i have ever had

Because the maximum weight the OP wants is 1.2kg
the Snugpac Antarctic RE weighs in at 2.8kg.
Over twice the weight.

 

[lamper]

All,

I have updated the main post as well, but to clarify....

Personal
---------------------------
Height: 5, 11
Build: Slim to Average (actually very similar to Gailainne - it would appear)

Shelters
--------------------
MSR Hubba Bubba (2 man ultralite tent)
DD travel hammock and tarp - could use hammock as bivi as well
Bivi Bag - dont have one, but would consider it instead of hammock, but would need to be a one that is away from your face.

Underneath
---------------------
Foam mat - standard £5 jobbie
Thermarest Prolite 3
All wether space blanket - (http://www.overstock.com/Sports-Toy...ket-Pack-of-2/4043974/product.html?cid=133635) - awesome piece of kit!

Clothes
---------------
Dont like to wear alot when sleeping, boxers and t-shirt
If cold, will wear thermals (only 1 layer though) and wolly hat.

Rucsack
-----------------
Berghaus 35+8 freeflow - would ideally like to be able to use this for up to 3 days
Karrimore SF 75 - Winter/bushcraft (because of extra tools) - longer than 3 days.

 

[Grooveski]

You'll have much more choice than I did. I always was broad and have been putting on some depth as well.
In fact the marmots might be a bit loose for you.
You'll be fine with the pipedream.

Don't know what the meet scene is like where you are but that'd be a good way of checking some bags out.

 

[drewdunnrespect]

didnt realise that the snugpack wayed so much and that there was a weight limit should have read origanol post better

drew

 

[lamper]

Drew: no worries. the bag I am replacing is a 12 year old "Mountain Equipment - made by Benn Harris", I later found out that Ben Harris was the name of SnugPak before they were SnugPak. It took their long serving employee to identify it! - its a 2.5kg whomper (-10c comfort). Still going strong, very warm and well made - Just too heavy.

Grooveski - Agreed. Alpkit look like the best bang for buck and they arent bricks either.

Cheers all for the insights. Any further comments welcome.

 

[Genaa]

Hiya,

Have you considered PHD sleeping bags? They do a good range and can also supply custom bags to your own spec. They are pricey but you get what you pay for I would say..

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/sleepingbags.php?cat=26

also, consider upgrading your sleeping mat - a better sleeping mat will add considerable comfort to your sleeping system and need not add significant additional weight. For year round comfort and definite luxury in the warmer months I'd get an exped downmat or synmat....

http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

the downmat 7 has an R value of 5.9 - making it about twice as warm as a thermarest and about the same weight - toasty down to -24!

Pricey but hey - what price comfort if you save weight into the bargain?

 

[big_swede]

Hiya,

Have you considered PHD sleeping bags? They do a good range and can also supply custom bags to your own spec. They are pricey but you get what you pay for I would say..

http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/sleepingbags.php?cat=26

also, consider upgrading your sleeping mat - a better sleeping mat will add considerable comfort to your sleeping system and need not add significant additional weight. For year round comfort and definite luxury in the warmer months I'd get an exped downmat or synmat....

http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/b43HomePageE?openframeset

the downmat 7 has an R value of 5.9 - making it about twice as warm as a thermarest and about the same weight - toasty down to -24!

Pricey but hey - what price comfort if you save weight into the bargain?

PHdesigns have very good reputation here too. Extremely good performance per weight. Lighter gear means less spent energy, which means less food need to carried, which means less energy spent etc. If the lighter gear also is warmer, then you will spend even less energy, which means you will have to carry even less food, which means lighter load... etc etc.

 

[mart]

Can I jump in and ask if anyone has any experience with the woodlore canada jay sleeping bag. Its 2.6 kgs and has an extreme cold rating of -45, for £170.00 which is cheap in comparison to say a mountain equipment iceline. The iceline is similar in performance ratings but is obviously more expensive but is almost a kilo lighter than the canada jay. On top of both of these is the mountain equipment everest which goes down to an exteme of -57 for 2090g.

Sorry for the hjack, Mart.