£££££'s

[Shewie]

does anybody think the economic downturn over the next year will affect course prices and attendance levels?

Probably, I heard leisure pursuits were one of the hardest hit in the last recession. You would think people would turn to home grown fun though rather trips abroad etc, bushcraft and general outdoorsy stuff has boomed in the last ten years though so maybe it will be different this time.

I spoke to a number of instructors recently from various schools and most of them believed they were in for a hard time ahead.

 

[HillBill]

does anybody think the economic downturn over the next year will affect course prices and attendance levels?

I think that is an awkward question to put an answer to. On one side of the coin there is the possibility that the bookings will drop due to money being needed elsewhere ( things are going to get really bad btw). Then there's the possibility that because of the downturn LOTS of people may find it money well spent to learn the knowledge that everyone should already know.

So i reckon it'll fall off dramatically OR pick up exponentialy, only time and marketing will tell. Find the right angle to get it accross to the majority and it'll take off like never before.

 

[HillBill]

Probably, I heard leisure pursuits were one of the hardest hit in the last recession. You would think people would turn to home grown fun though rather trips abroad etc, bushcraft and general outdoorsy stuff has boomed in the last ten years though so maybe it will be different this time.

I spoke to a number of instructors recently from various schools and most of them believed they were in for a hard time ahead.

General outdoor pursuits don't really benefit people with regards to looking after ones family etc.

Bushcraft on the other hand does.

 

[bushman762]

In R's case I don't think its suppy and demand so much as good advertising! He's aimimg his market at those who can afford his prices, this is business ... his courses appear to always be full, thats good for him.

There are others that charge less and who may give more or less on their courses than R does. I think I read somewhere that R doesn't even have to put in an appearance at his courses, young folks running it for him and he's coining.

I would rather find a raw jewel like http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S7YoX5C9vzM and pay him a sensible amount in my eyes, before he gets caught up in the marketing.

Cheers

 

[rancid badger]

firecrest : does anybody think the economic downturn over the next year will affect course prices and attendance levels?


Almost certainly, although not for Woodlore, having just checked out their course availability, they are pretty much booked up for next year anyway.

Cheers
R.B.

 

[Joonsy]

Ray Mears shop is very expensive, whenever i do a search for new equipment he is usually the most expensive, recently i was after a DC4 and eventually got one after recomendations from fellow members here for £12.95 including the postage, the same item delivered from Mears website was a whopping £23. He often mentions that he got into bushcraft because he wanted to go camping but couldn't afford the equipment so ''made-do'' with cheap gear and self-taught himself bushcraft, well as he is just about the most expensive out there i have followed his advice and learnt to avoid rip-off prices by spending my hard-earned money elsewhere.

 

[firecrest]

firecrest : does anybody think the economic downturn over the next year will affect course prices and attendance levels?


Almost certainly, although not for Woodlore, having just checked out their course availability, they are pretty much booked up for next year anyway.

Cheers
R.B.

Yes I suppose people have paid already in advance, perhaps those with less far advanced bookings will suffer worse. In ragards to bushcraft being useful, I dont think most people are preparing for that bad a recession. A good way to prepare is by hording tins of food and buying a wood burner, but the percentage of people doing this is probably lower than it should be. If push comes to shove, people will poach and steal more,or join the army, probably not book themselves onto bushcraft courses.

 

[HillBill]

Yes I suppose people have paid already in advance, perhaps those with less far advanced bookings will suffer worse. In ragards to bushcraft being useful, I dont think most people are preparing for that bad a recession. A good way to prepare is by hording tins of food and buying a wood burner, but the percentage of people doing this is probably lower than it should be. If push comes to shove, people will poach and steal more,or join the army, probably not book themselves onto bushcraft courses.

But thats not to say it isn't going to get bad. Think Iceland and the events in Greece and Spain lately (I have friends in both police and military and they are doing preps for civil unrest, crowd control and curfews).Some people will do what you say ie poach steal and join the army. The most however neither shoot, rob or want to leave families behind to join the forces.

As i said, marketing is the key, get it more mainstream using the depression as a reason to do so. Free healthy food etc.

 

[British Red]

Well now, I suspect that Ray is providing for the future of his children.

If anyone here has turned round to their employer and asked "please will you cut my pay - I know people are lining up to offer me work but I think I should work for much less" then maybe they have room to criticise. Otherwise perhaps they should nip in on Monday and volunteer to take a 50% pay cut?

This is the mans job, his pension and the financial security of his children. It isn't a charity, a crusade or a moral undertaking.

Bushcraft is a hobby. Nothing more, nothing less. A bushcraft course has no more "moral imperative" than a golf lesson or learning to sail in the Med.

Do you see Mr Els, Nicklaus etc. offering cut price golf lessons? Does Nigel Masel run your kids through a three point turn?

No-one needs to study Bushcraft at all. For those who want to, then there are plenty of places that will do it for a reasonable price. For those who want the glamour factor of Woodlore it comes at a price. A cheap price. The professional courses I organise with food and accomadation cost from £2,000 a week on upwards. £600 for the top company? Bargain!

Red

 

[rik_uk3]

As others have said, Woodlore is a business, simple as that. Ray does not say he will teach on the courses when you look at the site, and with his reputation at stake he can't afford to offer low standards, his instructors must hit the mark I would have thought.

£600 or £700 for a weeks course? cheap really, try booking a half decent Hotel for a week and see what that costs alone.

His shop is expensive? Could be on some items but you don't have to shop there, and his setup is not amazon.com or sitting on piles of stock so his prices reflect this perhaps.

The Arctic course run by Lars is two grand plus flights so say £2500, thats not bad when you look at what you get. With 15 pupils in attendance thats £30K revenue, take out the costs and the short time the course can run over a winter and its not rocket science to see you won't make millions from it.

Lets be honest, there are a lot of members on this forum who would not be here if RM had not been on the telly and sparked an interest so credit where credit is due, the man has done a fine job. He's 44 years old and doing OK for himself and long may he do so. Give the chap a break for crying out loud.

Just team up with other woodsmen campers in your area and you can learn for free, although you don't get a certificate or can boast that you've been on a Ray Mears course

 

[Wayland]

Any business that want to survive can only charge what the market will bear.

I don't see him going out of business so his pricing must be right.

The fact that it might be more that we want to pay or can afford is not their problem.

It's called capitalism and although the system is slightly flawed it's still the most successful one out there.

I suspect BG could charge even more and offer much less value.

 

[Shewie]

I suspect BG could charge even more and offer much less value.

I wondered how long it would take

 

[Wayland]

I wondered how long it would take

 

[HillBill]

It's called capitalism and although the system is slightly flawed it's still the most successful one out there.

I suspect BG could charge even more and offer much less value.

Capitalism won't be around for very long, we are currently experiencing its initial death throes. I also suspect there will be cancellations from woodlore in the next year or so, probably lots of them.

 

[John Fenna]

Well now, I suspect that Ray is providing for the future of his children.

If anyone here has turned round to their employer and asked "please will you cut my pay - I know people are lining up to offer me work but I think I should work for much less" then maybe they have room to criticise. Otherwise perhaps they should nip in on Monday and volunteer to take a 50% pay cut?

Well - I dont offer 50% off but members of this site do get money off when they come for canoe coaching from me....and two nights a week, sometimes 3, I work for free from our church and every winter I act for free in our local theatre although I have also done paid stuff for TV...
However I would not critiscise RM if he wants to charge what folk will pay - just stand amazed at what people will pay!

 

[rancid badger]

Capitalism won't be around for very long, we are currently experiencing its initial death throes. I also suspect there will be cancellations from woodlore in the next year or so, probably lots of them.

I think you may be right on the Woodlore cancellations but i don't think they'll drop their prices anytime soon.
R.B.

 

[johnnytheboy]

I was surprised when i seen how fully booked it was, I have been told no foreign fishing next year until the roof goes on the house so i was looking for something abit cheaper in the UK but RM is fully booked all year. I thought it was surprising but it shows simple supply and demand, hence the reason it is a little dearer than others. I'd be very interested in looking into other course but some folk told me there are a few rogues out there, Woodlore is a brand backed by Ray Mears so at least you have a guarentee you will get a good deal rather than ripped off.

 

[helixpteron]

Capitalism won't be around for very long, we are currently experiencing its initial death throes......

Reports of the death have been greatly exaggerated!

 

[HillBill]

I've never really understood why people need to go on a bushcrafting course tbh. I'm not saying they shouldn't, thats up to them, only i don't understand the reasoning.

This forum is probably the best source of information going. If people need showing how to do things rather that read the theory and suss it themselves then fair enough, everyones different and i respect that.

In my opinion though, bushcraft is one of those subjects where personal trial and error prevails. Knowledge gleaned from books, tv and here backed up by having a bash at stuff at home or in the woods, is all i think is needed to get your head around it. Then practice practice practice.

 

[HillBill]

Reports of the death have been greatly exaggerated!

The capitalist system was designed from the start to be a faliure. Capitalism can only end in its own suicide by being capitalist.