Water

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Tantalus

Native
May 10, 2004
1,014
104
60
Galashiels
a couple of things from my own experience

if it is hot and you are not stopping for a pee every hour or so you probably are not drinking enough

just think when you last stopped for a pee and it could save your life

one of the worst signs is when someone stops sweating

get water into them quickly and find shade

Tant
 

jakunen

Native
To add to that Tant. One easy way to check on your hydration level is to look at the colour of your urine.

In a healthy person who is fully hydrated it should be clear and practically colourless. The darker yellow it is the more dehydrated you are.

If its orange, either you've been drinking chemical light-sticks or you REALLY need to get some water inside you.
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,973
37
50
South Wales Valleys
Remember though that there are some foods, supplements and medications that can alter the colour of your urine so make sure you havn't taken one of these before using your urine colour as an indicator.

Ed
 

jakunen

Native
Good point Ed, and I was assuming that it was a healthy person who wasn't takign or eating anything like that. I know such things as asparagus can 'taint your waters', but as I'm no longer a food or pharmaceutical scientist I couldn't tell you what foods/drugs/supplements woudl alter the colour of normal, healthy urine.
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
Beetroot does funny things to your water too!!!!

Good advice on that site though.....

Remember the old survival saying "Ration your sweat, not your water". :eek:):

and for all smokers like me out there.....stop it as it dehydrates you too!
 

den

Nomad
Jun 13, 2004
295
1
48
Bristol
Good link.

Checking the colour and strength of smell is the way I check my hydration levels but saying that I can remember times when I have been working hard in the desert I drank water at every possible opportunity and as much as I could (easily over 20 pts) and still only passed dark smelly urine a couple of times a day.

I did a 2 day water depravation exercise in the desert once. It was around the top end of the 40's and was given two pints for the two days. I have got to say it was one of my worse times of my life. We spent the hot days under a poncho. My stress levels went through the roof. Trying to only take one swig out of a water bottle when you were so thirsty was almost impossible. To hot and irritated to sleep. No let up from the constant barrage of fly’s landing on your eyes and mouth. You could have easily gone crazy. Nasty, nasty nasty.
Being it that situation for real with no way out must be the worse way to die.
 

NickBristol

Forager
Feb 17, 2004
232
0
Bristol, UK
Remember that it isn't just hot arrid environments where dehydration is a problem. I've got to agree with Den about going stir crazy on water deprivation 'courses' but the worst time for me was early-winter in the artic circle, surrounded by snow and ice, with limited fuel left and needing to cover close on 20 miles a day with a full kit. It was hard going and the temptation to stop and just shove snow into a dry parched mouth was almost irresistible, even tho you know it's the worst thing to do. Reading 'Touching the Void' really brought back the memories of being without water for a few days, although I'm glad to say I didn't have the injuries he had. The experience must have had an effect as I'm rarely more than a foot from a litre or two of water now...
 

bambodoggy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 10, 2004
3,062
50
49
Surrey
www.stumpandgrind.co.uk
den said:
Good link.

Checking the colour and strength of smell is the way I check my hydration levels but saying that I can remember times when I have been working hard in the desert I drank water at every possible opportunity and as much as I could (easily over 20 pts) and still only passed dark smelly urine a couple of times a day.

I did a 2 day water depravation exercise in the desert once. It was around the top end of the 40's and was given two pints for the two days. I have got to say it was one of my worse times of my life. We spent the hot days under a poncho. My stress levels went through the roof. Trying to only take one swig out of a water bottle when you were so thirsty was almost impossible. To hot and irritated to sleep. No let up from the constant barrage of fly’s landing on your eyes and mouth. You could have easily gone crazy. Nasty, nasty nasty.
Being it that situation for real with no way out must be the worse way to die.

Den...I know it was only an exercise but did you have a bash at collecting your own water.....licking it off the metal of your vehicle in the early morning for dew etc? I've read all about it in the books but never met anyone who's actually tried it.
I think it's Mors Kochaski's book that says the solar still is useless and while it looks good in the books it doesn't work.
Or where you just sitting there pretending to be unskilled?
 

den

Nomad
Jun 13, 2004
295
1
48
Bristol
bambodoggy said:
Den...I know it was only an exercise but did you have a bash at collecting your own water.....licking it off the metal of your vehicle in the early morning for dew etc? I
I’ve tried a solar still a few times in the desert and other places and as you said it’s not worth the effort. Maybe a mouthful or two for a lot of effort. Peeing around the sides helps a bit.

No dew in the mornings but we did collect what urine there was and distil it over a little fire using a tin with a lid which had a small hole in the top which we connected the tubing off a drip. It worked ok but still tasted slightly salty as it boiled up to the lid and slightly contaminated the distilled water. Not wanting to waste anymore liquid redistilling it we just drank it.

Another time in Africa we covered vegetation with plastic bag to collect water. The knack with that is not to let any vegetation touch the inside of the bag as it turns the water a nasty brown and not knowing what the tree was I very reluctant to drink it. Again a mouthful or two for all your hard work. You’d need quite a few of these to keep yourself going. Pesonally i would say save the effort and sweat.
 

Pict

Settler
Jan 2, 2005
611
0
Central Brazil
clearblogs.com
Well that's a first. I've never opened up a link before and found something I wrote! That has to be some sort of milestone in my life as a wilderness board poster.

I'm glad this info can be of use. I had been asking for help editing it on Bladeforums and Britishblades. I got a lot of really good suggestions to make it more readable and cut out some confusion. I tried to stay with the methods that are easy and effective. Most of the people who will be getting this in my organization are not wilderness types. Mac
 

den

Nomad
Jun 13, 2004
295
1
48
Bristol
Pict said:
Well that's a first. I've never opened up a link before and found something I wrote! That has to be some sort of milestone in my life as a wilderness board poster.

Mac

Well done mate. Nicely put together :biggthump
 

Moonraker

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 20, 2004
1,190
18
61
Dorset & France
There is another useful site aimed mostly at NGO's and the like but still got some useful info:

Rehydrate.org

and more specifically:

Rehydrate.org - Why is Dehydration so Dangerous?

There is another slightly disorganised web article but lots of ideas here:

WATER, by Jiyani

Bear in mind it contains advice I would not view as bang up to date but interesting nonetheless.

I am not so sure about this in your article PICT?:

Under no circumstances should you drink seawater or urine
given that it has saved lives in survival situations and from what I read and posted on this thread earlier:

http://www.bushcraftuk.net/community/showpost.php?p=62206&postcount=24

I realise that drinking your own pee would not save you on it's own as most water is lost through sweat in hot climates but, unless you have some infection, it is unlikely to be harmful and it is 95% water. I am sure others have more info on this.

Some examples in survival:

Reuter Report

August 14, 1990

"Four Sri Lankan commandos who drifted in a boat more than 1,000 miles to Thailand after they had been ambushed and given up for dead were given a rapturous welcome when they returned home. 'They managed to survive on the boat by catching turtles and drinking urine,' a military officer said."

Kyodo News Service, Tokyo

July 30, 1990

"A male cook was pulled out of the rubble of the Hyatt Hotel early Monday morning, 14 days after a powerful earthquake devastated the northern Philippines, officials said. Dry, with only minor bruises on his body, he told reporters he survived by drinking his own urine."
 

Pict

Settler
Jan 2, 2005
611
0
Central Brazil
clearblogs.com
Moonraker,

I collected info from a wide range of sources for that paper and most of them repeated the same line about urine or seawater.

I know you can drink a small amount of seawater as long as your total salt intake is balanced by your total salt loss. You can't drink more salt in than what you are loosing through sweat or your body will have to rob tissues to remove the excess salt.

My understanding is that the same applies to urine. If the body is already well hydrated and ridding itself of excess water then the total concentration of salts and other waste products in the urine is probably low enough that it won't be a problem.

If a person is already dehydrated and their urine is concentrated it seems logical to me that the body would have to dilute that as well, robbing tissues to do so. It will have to use water to eliminate the waste. That's just my understanding of it. I'm not a doctor, maybe someone else can shed light on this.

I know urine is sterile. The idea of using it in a solar still or for distilation seems safer to me if possible. Mac
 

Moonraker

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 20, 2004
1,190
18
61
Dorset & France
Thanks for the feedback Mac. I can see that increased salt levels could/ would be a problem as you say. I guess there is a threshold at which point those salt levels become harmful/ non beneficial.

From the US Dept. of Energy:

Humans can't drink salt water because the kidneys can only make urine that is less salty than salt water. Therefore, to get rid of all the excess salt taken in by drinking salt water, you have to urinate more water than you drank, so you die of dehydration

So urine is not as salty as sea water(which does not mean it is drinkable)

From other reading it appears that sea water is about 4 percent salt. It takes about 2 litres of body fluids to rid the body of waste from 1 litre of saltwater. Therefore, by drinking seawater you deplete your body's water supply, which can cause death. Urine contains about 2 percent salt so for every 1 litre or urine you would need 1 litre of body fluid which gives a neutral water intake. And as you say, the more dehydrated you are the more concentrated the salts in the urine become.

I am not sure how beneficial it is to ingest the salt as it is lost through sweating and urination? Or p[erhaps the simple act of drinking anything...moral?

In the book 'Between a Rock and a Hard Place' written by Aron Ralston about his ordeal trapped inside a deep and remote canyon in the US he mentions drinking urine when his water ran out:

DAY 5:... "I update my hour tallies in my head: 96 hours of sleep deprivation, 90 hours that I've been trapped, 29 hours that I've been sipping my urine, and 25 hours with no fresh water. The exercise evokes no emotion, only matter-of-fact acknowledgment."

DAY SIX: "....sip after sip of acidic urine has eroded my gums and left my palate raw."

source:http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200409/aron_ralston_1.html (you can read an excerpt here of his amazing ordeal and will to survive)

So another problem with drinking it.

Perhaps it will be possible to utilise some form of 'forward osmosis' filters so we can just pee into a bag and drink the filtered water 1 hour later :)

Interesting technology as it does not need the mechanical pressure of reverse osmosis techniques.

Forward osmosis (FO) is a relatively unexplored process that may be able to separate salt from water as effectively as RO, while being more energy efficient, environmentally friendly and economically viable. It operates by osmotic flow of water across a semi-permeable membrane from seawater to a solution of higher osmotic pressure known as the "draw" solution.
 

Pict

Settler
Jan 2, 2005
611
0
Central Brazil
clearblogs.com
Moonraker,

I won't be satisfied with a forward osmosis pump. I want a stillsuit like in Dune. One that condenses all perspiration, urine, and respiration vapor and purifies it for recirculation. I want a Light Saber too but I'll just have to settle for my BK-7 for now. I'm getting too high-tech for a bushcrafter board... I'd better quit. Mac
 

ChrisKavanaugh

Need to contact Admin...
A french physician in the '50s undertook a experimental lifeboat journey and allegedly survived by drinking seawater. His work actually formed the basis of the french armed forces survival manual. Later Thor Hyderthal experimented with the same regimen to demonstrate how ancient polynesians survived ocean crossings. My Hawaiian friend, a very active member of the recreated catamaran crew had this to say " editedxxxxxxx haoliesxxxxxxxedited.
 

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