Just back from an overnighter of about 16 miles and a total of 3000 ft of elevation gain. One of the party had a large A.L.I.C.E. with proper frame and belts. I asked him how it was at the end and he referred to it a " a fornicating useless piece of excrement" (or words to that effect). His shoulders were raw, hips and lower back sore. (He had loaned his "good" kit to beginners in the group). Wanted to stop at a bridge on the way back and throw it in the river. This BTW was a person with over thirty years of experience of hiking the White mountains in New hampshire, so he knew what worked. He now knows what doesn't. Be advised, don't waste your money trying to locate a frame for this "F.U.P.O.S"