Yobbos spoil things again

[locum76]

I disagree (in the nicest possible way!). I have issues with drinking around fires and sharps (knives/axes). A dram before bed hurts no-one - passing the bottle around is a recipe for disaster. I don't understand why people feel they 'have' to drink to have a good time? Don't get me wrong, I love a beer or a glass of wine, or a small whiskey.

We don't have to go along with the 'drinking is OK at meets' policy, especially if there are children and/or sharps around. I would have no problem whatsoever with there being a blanket alcohol ban at future meets. There will, of course, be complaints about 'the few spoiling it for the many' - well, so what? Ban alcohol and don't invite 'the few'.

I honestly don't know when heavy drinking became part of bushcraft but it adds nothing!

Aye, fair play Mikey. perhaps some Moots for those who must, and some for those who rather we didn't would be the way forward.

In the greater context of the OP I still feel we have to accept that Scottish folk will go into the woods to get drunk though, at least until the SNP's long term approach to alcohol legislation starts to have an effect.

Oops i mentioned politics. sorry mods. I'll edit this post if required.

Regards

Rob

 

[Nagual]

Have to agree, making more laws or regulations will do nothing at all. We have plenty of laws and whatnot already however they are not enforced as strongly as they could be.

Was out at the weekend, with two mates and had a lovely spot in mind on the west side of Loch Eck (part of the national park and a SSSI) only to find 2 cars parked ( on a forestry track where you shouldn't be driving ) and a couple of tents in place, music blaring and screeching coming from the guys n gals there already. - What is it about young drunk idiots that feel the need to woop all the time? literally "wooop Wooop " This went of till it got too dark for them , or possibly too drunk to articulate this particular phrase. On the journey back, on the road was rubbish, socks and assorted crap just dumped where the cars were.

The answer? Lock the sodding gates!


Rant over.

On the plus side, we moved down to a beach further down the track and had a lovely view of the Loch and the crystal clear nights sky, which I slept out under.. can't beat sleeping under hte sky and waking up to a lovely warm sun shining down on you..

 

[firecrest]

The sad thing is the law will do nothing but stop the law-abiding, who were leaving no trace in the first place.

 

[BigShot]

I sincerely hope this doesn't go the way it sounds like it could.

Just last week I was up on Loch Lomond with my girlfriend. We went out on a canoe and camped on the islands for a couple of lovely nights... one lovely as it was such a nice night we didn't even bother with the tent (a first for both of us) and she didn't get cold (a first for her in all our camping trips - and good on her for sticking with it - no wonder I'm so keen on her!).... the other was lovely as there was a pretty strong, fairly cold breeze blowing, and the canoe tipped on its side, propped with the paddles combined with the (fallen, dead) birch fire we had going made for a lovely warm pocket to sit in before sleep (in the tent this time).

We didn't leave so much as a sniff of a trace, the fire, which I built in an old fireplace (circle of stones) before moving the stones anyway looked less like a fire when we left than when we arrived.

An absolutely magical trip, with two days of paddling on an almost deserted mill-pond loch (the first day's paddling was a busy Sunday of jet skis and powerboats).

I'd hate to see a trip like we just enjoyed be either stopped altogether or even be forced into a more secretive manner - one thing that brings us to Scotland (driving past the lakes and most of the pennines en route) are the infinitely more sensible access and camping laws enjoyed north of the border. Lomond is a fair drive from here, but doable, getting to somewhere more remote would be more difficult from here and so make trips like that far less likely.

Personally I say we employ a band of hard-cases to beat the "responsibility" side of the access code into the people who ignore it...
...failing that, a few parkies to go round educating people and if necessary calling the police to deal with trouble - stiff fines would help here - would be a close second best.

I just think people like that would probably respond better to a hospital stay than polite and rational education.

 

[falling rain]

Unfortunately there will always be the clowns that abuse the countryside and leave their waste for others to view and clear up. Not to mention the booze fuelled raucous cackelling and loud offensive music till 4 in the morning. You get that at certain campsites too from the maggots. I think bring back the stocks, pay say £1 for 5 tomatoes or £10 for 10 potatoes (as they hurt more). Money goes towards wages for clearing up......... Sorted.

I'm no angel, I like a beer too, but I bear in mind not to intrude on others...............so in other words I'm great and perfect. In fact one of my best qualities....... of which there are many.... is my incredible sense of modesty. I :You_Rock_ :umbrella:

No just being stupid.

I don't honestly think there's a lot we can do. There will always be clowns, Neds, and maggots I'm afraid ...............maybe we could just take them out to deep sea in a boat and strap a breeze block to each leg and dump them overboard..............or is that going too far? :AR15firin :twak:

 

[locum76]

Personally I say we employ a band of hard-cases to beat the "responsibility" side of the access code into the people who ignore it...
...failing that, a few parkies to go round educating people and if necessary calling the police to deal with trouble - stiff fines would help here - would be a close second best.

I just think people like that would probably respond better to a hospital stay than polite and rational education.

This is provocative, incendiary, callous, unproductive and downright wrong. What a terrible thought.

 

[BigShot]

I sincerely hope you're joking there and didn't miss the fairly obvious tongue in cheek in my post...

...I thought the bit about enforcing current laws would be a clear enough indicator of that.


To elaborate: Effective police enforcement of public drinking laws around here has gone a long way to stamp out problem teenage drinking in the area. Granted it was mainly a political "targets" thing, but the end result was a good one.
I see no reason a similar effort (albeit done differently due to the rural location of the problem under discussion) wouldn't work in the "neds on tour" situation.

Like the folk drinking in the streets here were forced to empty their own beer into the gutter and carry the cans/bottles to a bin (I think they should have been made to go to a recycling point with them, but others may disagree) under threat of a fine for littering - the folk we're talking about here should be made to clean up the barbies, douse the flames, tidy up any litter in the area (even if not their own), fined and be escorted back to their cars and told the same would happen again if they are caught at it again.

All it'd take is some enforcement - eventually the culture will change from being a tit and ruining the countryside to going out and actually enjoying it for what it is.

We've got the laws, we just need to actually do something about it.

 

[locum76]

okay fair enough, the tongue in cheek thing could have been helped along with a smiley or something though.

I tend to get a bit miffed at threads when folk get started on advocating violence or antisocial behaviour as a cure for violence or antisocial behaviour, which isn't a great thing for me to do.

I'd prefer if the feds weren't wandering around the hills looking for 'yobbos'. I think its good enough that some rangers are special constables, they are as much as we need. As I stated before I'd also like to see more investment in the infrastructure to support the huge number of visitors to the area.

 

[BigShot]

Locum - I couldn't agree more.
The feds really belong in the cities for the most part as they have plenty to deal with on that front.

Some rangers with powers to issue tickets, move people on and fall back on calling for police if things are beyond them to deal with would be great. It really does need enforcement though. Do the rangers get out and about at night? I've never seen it in the few times I've camped up there, one time we were on an island and another we were eating a stove-cooked meal in a quiet car park (no intention of camping there) long after sunset when the packed cars, loud music and massive fires started up.

Couldn't agree more about infrastructure.


Apologies about lack of smiley. I tend not to bother with them as much as I possibly should.
I'm not even entirely sure which one I'd use for tongue in cheek.

Maybe [incheek]hang 'em all[/incheek] would do.

 

[Toddy]

There's no getting away from the disgrace that a littering populace can, and do, totally trash the very area that they come to enjoy
There's also no point, I think, in pretending that it'll all sort itself out anytime soon.

There is a culture of littering in the UK as a whole, not just central Scotland. Look at the filth and mess left behind after any festival.......or the sheer volume of rubbish collected daily from our city streets, or after a football match or concert

How on Earth can it be expected that without investing as much effort cleaning up behind the numpties and the terminally selfish, as would be done in any other place where there was such a volume of visitors, that things will settle down properly ?

This is just part of a much, much wider malaise.
I live in hope that education will eventually get the message through, but, I have to admit that sometimes I think a big "nanny state" campaign, where the dirty, lazy, littering louts are harranged in press and on TV, and the whole thing backed up with enough funding to actually prosecute a few of the offenders, might be the only way to actively promote change.

Toddy

 

[locum76]

my final point on this subject:

perhaps one day we'll see a shift away from the production of disposable goods. then the litter louts won't have anything to litter with!

I live in hope.

 

[Toddy]

That's a very good point Rob

I know that a proposal years ago to make all wrappers biodegradable fell foul of the food industry giants.......still wouldn't solve the disposable tents, bbq's and other detritus though..........maybe if there was some value added to those it might work ? Can't see it anytime soon

cheers,
M

 

[gregorach]

Biodegradable tents!

 

[Toddy]

Guaranteed to last for one week Just long enough for the festival/ concert/ weekend howf and then they become compost Poles and pegs of similar stuff..........waste from the forestry industry or something similar ? but with a glue that will dissolve into fertiliser

cheers,
M

 

[Norton]

They're called shelters aren't they?

 

[Toddy]

Yeah

Unfortunately the numpties are cutting down oaks, ash, birch, rowan and totally denuding entire areas and islands to burn

Good idea though, how about a massive willow planting campaign............willow coppices, but it and hazel provide lots of good poles for simple bender shelters.........now we jsut need to persuade folks not just to burn it

cheers.
M

 

[gregorach]

They're called shelters aren't they?

If only... Many of the woods outside of Edinburgh are testament to the facts that (a) natural shelters don't melt away quickly, and (b) it's not only festival-goers who think it's OK to just walk away from whatever you slept in...

 

[tjwuk]

I camped on the shores of Lock Awe a couple of years ago. First time in Scotland, and my first impression was that it wasn't worth the drive, allbeit the wonderful scenery etc.

What spoilt it was, desimated trees, fire scares and human crap everywhere with used toilet paper scattered about. After a couple of days a guy came round to ask if we had done any fishing, no came the answer. But we did take this opportunity to say what a mess it was. Needless to say he didn't seem to care, more interested in finding fish remains and spot fining us!

I still can't realy believe that anyone can be that stupid in 'soiling' (not miss spelt!)such a wonderful space.

 

[BigShot]

Toddy

I love the idea of making all food packaging biodegradable. It's no surprise the food giants said no - what do they care? The bottom line for them is the bottom line! We must be in a pretty small minority thinking plastic-wrapped everything is a bad idea.

I don't think there's anything even slightly nanny-state about naming, shaming and punishing people who screw the country up.
The nanny state would be more inclined to get everyone else to look after their mess while doing nothing to condemn the sods that litter like that because "it's not their fault" or some such.

Couldn't agree more that it's part of a massive problem.

I can't for the life of me imagine what these people actually see when they get to a nice secluded spot that's full of litter. I know the likes of us look at it with disgust and upset - but what do they think?
Do they even notice? Do they think it's bad but not see the connection between that and their behaviour? Do they see it and think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it? Or do they just dump things assuming it's the same as in the cities and someone comes around to collect and as such they are "keeping someone in a job"?

It's so completely alien to me that I just can't imagine what's going on. I was brought up so well on the litter front that if I'm passing a bin and realise a few steps on that I've missed, I'll go back and put it in... when it comes to camping I won't leave so much as a scrap behind me!

I just don't get it.


Rob - I'm with you on the disposables. In the "about" section of my blog I have a quick one-line-rant about how organic food on a plastic tray, with a plastic lid, all wrapped in plastic is missing the point entirely.