What do you make of these sleeping bags?

[Syrio]

I think most people know China has been exporting some very high quality items for years now at low rates, mostly overcoming the old junk stereotypes. The junk is still there though so you have to be discerning in what you go for.

Ive been collecting SRM/Enlan/Ganzo knives off Exduct for over a year and they occasionally add to their other products and today I noticed an expanded sleeping bag range.

The duck down winter one comes in at around 70 pounds delivered if you get past customs without getting stung - http://www.exduct.com/winter-sleeping-bags/winter-season-bag-sd302.html

The rest - http://www.exduct.com/outdoor-camping-products-equipments-store.html

Thoughts?

 

[Dave]

I would never buy any down products from China unless I was completely positive that the down did not come from Live Plucking Birds. A very cruel method indeed.

 

[Syrio]

I would never buy any down products from China unless I was completely positive that the down did not come from Live Plucking Birds. A very cruel method indeed.

Never heard of this before, what you are saying is some manufactures remove the feathers from live birds?. Sounds unpleasant, why would they do it that way?.

 

[Dave]

Reputable Companies like Rab and Montane gather down during food production as a natural by-product.

why would they do it that way?

Profit. I assume if you live pluck a bird, over time its feathers will grow back. You can then subject it to the same horrific treatment over and over.

Google Live Plucking China. Plenty of info on the web. Very painful, and cruel IMO.
Some provinces in China have recently adopted laws against animal cruelty, but they are not enforced.
[It's illegal in Europe and the USA, but still occurs in Hungary and Poland]

I buy quite a lot of skins fur and feathers, I use them for fly tying, but always ask my suppliers where they source their stuff from.

 

[santaman2000]

.... Profit. I assume if you live pluck a bird, over time its feathers will grow back. You can then subject it to the same horrific treatment.....

That was my first thought too. But on reflection it really doesn't seem likely it would be profitable to keep feeding the birds unless you got super premium prices for the down. And that usually isn't the case for Chinese products.

 

[Dave]

Im sure that there will be a large profit margin Santaman, when you take into account the low wages, and I read they pluck them as often as every 6 weeks for four years.

Im sure google will turn something up, if Syrio wants to look into it further.

 

[Nice65]

That was my first thought too. But on reflection it really doesn't seem likely it would be profitable to keep feeding the birds unless you got super premium prices for the down. And that usually isn't the case for Chinese products.

No information on down products, but I know for a fact that the Sanrenmu type knives we buy here for what we consider very little money are regarded as high status in China. We pay what we consider to be a small amount of cash, but most Chinese people would never afford them. We're paying Chinese domestic prices on them. I think rather than speculate, go off topic etc, it would be worth emailing Jacky at Exduct and asking him direct.

 

[Syrio]

No information on down products, but I know for a fact that the Sanrenmu type knives we buy here for what we consider very little money are regarded as high status in China. We pay what we consider to be a small amount of cash, but most Chinese people would never afford them. We're paying Chinese domestic prices on them. I think rather than speculate, go off topic etc, it would be worth emailing Jacky at Exduct and asking him direct.

That's probably a good idea, though I personally have not had to deal with their customer service before despite a dozen or so orders from them. No offense intended but their automated order emails suffer from abit of 'Engrish'

Getting back to the bags themselves, beyond any ethical considerations what do you think of them?.

 

[santaman2000]

Im sure that there will be a large profit margin Santaman, when you take into account the low wages, and I read they pluck them as often as every 6 weeks for four years.

Im sure google will turn something up, if Syrio wants to look into it further.

Yeah I realize the low wages. That doesn't account for feed prices though.

 

[WolfCub]

Sorry to OP for off topic thought ..

Feed prices could be a lot lower than for table birds. If all they are doing is enough food to keep them alive and relatively healthy, rather than for meat/finish they don't need the volume or quality of feed. Also, like intensive egg laying chickens, the bird will find it's way into the food chain in some form regardless of 'finish' when it's done quacking.
Harvesting the down / feathers a few times while the bird is alive adds value to the process.

In no way trying to justify the practice of live plucking, just a thought on the costings.

.. will now have a little look see at the bags etc.

 

[santaman2000]

Sorry to OP for off topic thought ..

Feed prices could be a lot lower than for table birds. If all they are doing is enough food to keep them alive and relatively healthy, rather than for meat/finish they don't need the volume or quality of feed. Also, like intensive egg laying chickens, the bird will find it's way into the food chain in some form regardless of 'finish' when it's done quacking.
Harvesting the down / feathers a few times while the bird is alive adds value to the process.

In no way trying to justify the practice of live plucking, just a thought on the costings.

.. will now have a little look see at the bags etc.

Agreed on most points. But if feathers (like hair) takes a high protien diet to grow then the quality of the feed does matter.

 

[bushwacker bob]

Ethics aside, the bags look very good value.

 

[drliamski]

I think most people know China has been exporting some very high quality items for years now at low rates, mostly overcoming the old junk stereotypes. The junk is still there though so you have to be discerning in what you go for.

Ive been collecting SRM/Enlan/Ganzo knives off Exduct for over a year and they occasionally add to their other products and today I noticed an expanded sleeping bag range.

The duck down winter one comes in at around 70 pounds delivered if you get past customs without getting stung - http://www.exduct.com/winter-sleeping-bags/winter-season-bag-sd302.html

The rest - http://www.exduct.com/outdoor-camping-products-equipments-store.html

Thoughts?

Could you show us some of the knives you have received collected?

Sent from my ST21i using Tapatalk 2

 

[grey-array]

To get down to the nitty gritty ( thats how you say that right?)

Lets analyze this bag thoroughly, The first thing as a designer/sleeping bag user/and a salesman of sleeping bags are the stitchings,
and the material with which the stitchings are made, we havent got good enough photographic material to see the gauge or quality of the thread though so all I can say about that it only seems to have a single stitch all the way round even around the zipper,
which shows that this is a cheaper bag, also the hood is stitched on in a way where it is prone to leave an air gap if tightened.
The outer fabric is not gonna last very long as it is single stitched all the way round and is not of a thick enough texture to be able to hold together by a single thread.
The outer fabric also is not the lightest but that is a thing we can neglect,

All and all I say it is a bag that has potential especially if you are a handy man with a sewing machine, just add some extra stitches on the places that need then, and a new type of cord in the hood, perhaps a nicer strap to guard the zipper away from the bottom of the chin and you should have a superb sleeping bag.
I reckon the state it is off the shelve, to have a life of approximately 3 years for the average bushcrafter who goes out every three weeks, with 2 minor repairs, probably around the hood and the zipper area.

so final verdict, Looks good to me for that price, but don't expect to have an everlasting sleeping bag, but if you have some future sleepingbag making plans, it would be a wise investment as its down can always be re-used, and then it would be a good deal, but we can't grade down of of a picture.

Yours sincerely Ruud
Hope that that was useful Syrio

 

[Bushwhacker]

99% of the talk on here is about shopping and buying stuff. From conception to birth of all the products you covet, how exactly do you think they are spawned? The OP merely asked a question, how about answering it without bringing in a load of self righteous crap that we're all guilty of in the larger scheme of things?

 

[bushwacker bob]

99% of the talk on here is about shopping and buying stuff. From conception to birth of all the products you covet, how exactly do you think they are spawned? The OP merely asked a question, how about answering it without bringing in a load of self righteous crap that we're all guilty of in the larger scheme of things?

I thought I did.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I thought I did.

That you did, squire. *doffs cap.

 

[rik_uk3]

Agreed, keep the 'right on' stuff for elsewhere, if I want a lecture I'll join Greenpeace et al.

The bag is about £60 included VAT, could well be a bargain.

 

[Dave]

99% of the talk on here is about shopping and buying stuff. From conception to birth of all the products you covet, how exactly do you think they are spawned? The OP merely asked a question, how about answering it without bringing in a load of self righteous crap that we're all guilty of in the larger scheme of things?

..........................................

 

[Syrio]

To get down to the nitty gritty ( thats how you say that right?)

Lets analyze this bag thoroughly, The first thing as a designer/sleeping bag user/and a salesman of sleeping bags are the stitchings,
and the material with which the stitchings are made, we havent got good enough photographic material to see the gauge or quality of the thread though so all I can say about that it only seems to have a single stitch all the way round even around the zipper,
which shows that this is a cheaper bag, also the hood is stitched on in a way where it is prone to leave an air gap if tightened.
The outer fabric is not gonna last very long as it is single stitched all the way round and is not of a thick enough texture to be able to hold together by a single thread.
The outer fabric also is not the lightest but that is a thing we can neglect,

All and all I say it is a bag that has potential especially if you are a handy man with a sewing machine, just add some extra stitches on the places that need then, and a new type of cord in the hood, perhaps a nicer strap to guard the zipper away from the bottom of the chin and you should have a superb sleeping bag.
I reckon the state it is off the shelve, to have a life of approximately 3 years for the average bushcrafter who goes out every three weeks, with 2 minor repairs, probably around the hood and the zipper area.

so final verdict, Looks good to me for that price, but don't expect to have an everlasting sleeping bag, but if you have some future sleepingbag making plans, it would be a wise investment as its down can always be re-used, and then it would be a good deal, but we can't grade down of of a picture.

Yours sincerely Ruud
Hope that that was useful Syrio

Thank you for a very detailed and technical review.

Im tempted to get one even if just for an experiment. I cant sew to save my life, but one of my neighbors is a retired seamstress and has repaired several things for me in the past for a nominal fee, perhaps she could do something here.