tree climbing

[davefish]

I was in a wood in Hockley, Essex this morning looking for firewood & spotted a guy in his 20's at the bottom of a tree with a small stack of 2x4's and rope leading to the top of said tree.

I wandered over to chat and asked him what he was doing, he replied that he was a hobbyist tree climber and was building a platform (which he was, coach bolts through the trunk and all) for fun. I asked if he'd sought permission to do it and his response was that no one seemed to mind so he felt quite free to do it.

Is what he was doing (and what i was doing collecting deadfall) legal without permission?

 

[chickenofthewoods]

I'll wait to be corrected, but I suspect that you'd be ok with the deadfall although most folks would suggest asking as a matter of courtesy assuming that you know or are in a position to ask the landowner. But I can't see how what he's doing would be without permission, considering that by running bolts through the trunk he's basically damaging the tree & possibly leaving the wounds open to disease. Not to mention the H&S nighmare if someone else fell off the platform he's built or it collapsed (yes, I know, but this is the world we seem to live in these days). I think the owners/local authorities would probably have kittens if they knew.

On the other hand, I can't help but admire him for taking the kind of thing we used to do as kids to a higher level.

 

[tjwuk]

Personally I think its wrong to attach anything to a tree like that as chicken of the woods said about disease etc. Souds like he is the type that attaches his hammock with a cordless drill or nails!!

Just out of interest what tree was it?

 

[robin wood]

Imagine the wood is your back garden, the same laws apply. If someone came into your garden and collected dead wood without permission you might be a little upset. If they climbed a tree drilled holes and erected a platform I imagine you would probably be livid and take them to court.

I suspect "no one seemed to mind" means I have not asked and not been found by the owner yet.

 

[swyn]

We operate a licence system for collecting deadwood and brash. This goes back to mediaeval times. When we are doing tree work we cut all the firewood to cordwood lengths and haul this away, this provides a living for the firewood merchant. The remaining lop and top is cut to 1.0 meter lengths. This renders the job reasonably tidy and also benefits the licence holders as they do not have to do any cutting, which we discourage anyway as this leads to 'elff and safety' issues.

If I caught said fellow doing anything like this in the woodland that I look after we would certainly try to prosecute him. Firstly what he is doing is vandalism, secondly ten years hence the iron bolts will cause the most horrendous accident to either a sawmiller or firewood processing machine operator. The second the iron is touched by the saw blade it will explode! Not something one wants to be near when that happens, plus the cost to machinery that will certainly run into hundreds.

I have a tree with a similar set of bolts in, rendering the thing valueless and dangerous. Plus the issue of if the chap fell from his perch, on his own, in the evening, in our woods. I wonder where I would be standing in court. (How often does one read 'Boy falls from tree'?...... Quite often!)
I have this tree in my list to fell, but it's a nice tree. (well it was before 40 or more coach screws and 30 ring eye bolts were fastened into it for 35 foot! And then the platform) What a dilemma!
Not happy!

Swyn.

PS. This is a 110 year old Beech tree situated in a little group that stands by a dew pond within a 100 acre wood. Some folks come here every day simply to enjoy the scene. Some camp, some leave cr*p which is upsetting, and some have attacked every tree with an axe and also driven 4'' nails into the trunks up to 6' from the ground (I've pulled all these out but can't repair the axe damage....only time will do this.) I can't get my head around the ones who do the damage with the above story being the most recent.
It's a beautiful quiet spot with many birds, deer and other wildlife visiting. We were paid by the FC to 'present' this area as they regarded it as a resource! The surrounding area is mainly populated by London commuters and their families so there is no 'deprivation' as portrayed by the media. S.

 

[badgeringtim]

No to mention all of the above, which I agree with whole heartedly, but tree climbing in whatever form certainly doesnt need bolts to be put through branches or trunks at all?
There are many ways of making temporary platforms and places using rope, cambian savers etc without any need to damage the tree.

To be honest it sounds like he is not only unaware of the results of his actions, which are actualy many and relatively far reaching but tremendously cavaliar and more than a bit of a liability!
I wouldnt advocate it but wouldnt be suprised if someone 'winged' him if they caught him at it.

 

[Overlander30]

What he's doing constitutes criminal damage. He risks not only prosecution, but civil action by the landowner for the cost of the tree and or other costs associated with the damage.

 

[davefish]

Thanks folks, i was quite shure that what he was doing was at least unwise and probably not legal. He was alone & if he had fallen it would not have been too pretty.

The woods appears to be a patch of old sweet chesnut coppice no longer worked (lots of dead standing trees & freshly fallen trees)

So far as collecting the firewood i will certainly not be doing that any more without finding someone to ask. Do you have any idea how i would find out who owns the wood?
Thank you again.

 

[demographic]

Meh, its most likely not legal but I can't quite find it in my heart to condemn a person for making a decent tree house so I wouldn't mention it to the authorities.

Live and let live and if it were on my land my only concern would be that it was well enough built so I could use it safely.

 

[fred gordon]

I would have thought any landowner would also be interested from the point of Public Liability Insurance and the risk of being sued if this clown fell out of the tree!!!

 

[robin wood]

Do you have any idea how i would find out who owns the wood?
Thank you again.

Depends where it is. Often asking somewhere local, post office, pub, shop, old boy in the street etc is the quickest easiest way. Another avenue is tree officer of your local council, phone council offices ask for tree officer.

 

[Front Room Woodlander]

We've erected highseats or shooting platforms using timbers, strops and ropes and ebdeavour to do minimal damage to the tree involved. It is good fun building a platform but why should the tree suffer for my enjoyment. Its just not right.

 

[Petey]

Hello - i reckon you must be talking about 'hockley woods'? In which case i reckon if you ask the lads in the big woodyard in the middle...
If you're elsewhere then start by asking at the nearest farm and in which case matey may well be setting up a hide for a bit of poaching - the farms would probably grant you some firewood for the tip-off!

 

[Elines]

There are people on this site that know a lot more about tree climbing than I do (eg Addo) but speaking as an occasional recreational tree climber I am horrified at what this guy is doing. If he knew anything at all about safe tree climbing he would now that you don't need to build a platform.

You need (eg):
• a proper tree climbing rope – NOT the same as for rock climbing
• a proper tree climbing harness - again NOT the same as for rock climbing
• for the occasional user I would also say that factory fitted end loops are essential to help avoid getting the knots wrong
• proper triple locking safety clips of the right strength

and most of all – proper training in how to use the kit.

Anyone interested could do worse than look at “The tree climber’s companion”. The Amazon reference is:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tree-Climbe...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264787345&sr=8-1

but you can usually get it cheaper from specialist arboricultural suppliers. In my view - good as the book is – it should only be used as a reminder of the training already received – and not as a ‘Teach yourself tree climbing’ book.

The (American) site – Tree Climbers International - has lots of good stuff eg it gives ‘rules’ on tree climbing at:

http://www.treeclimbing.com/index.p...s&catid=20:rules-for-tree-climbers&Itemid=145


One of these is:

“Protect the trees you climb -- use a cambium saver. Particularly on thin barked trees such as beech, eucalyptus, sycamore, or plane trees, the moving rope will cut into the tender inner bark layers, create damage and then kill the branch. The best way to protect trees during climbing is to use cambium savers.”

They probably didn’t think they needed to say “and by the way – don’t put coach bolts through the trunk” because they didn’t think anyone would be stupid enough to do that.

 

[davefish]

Thank you Robin, I will see what i can find out.
It wasnt Hockley woods but some scrub close by (but definatly seperate) so no guys arround apart from dog walkers and the tree climber.
He had all the proper gear (from what i could see) he appeared to be kitted out to the nines.

Thank you all.

 

[MikeE]

You may find the police are interested in this too. At another large wood in Essex platforms were found by the wardens hidden in the trees with an "aromatic plant" in pots (no pun intended!) A certain unit of the police were very interested indeed! If the platform was not visible from the ground then that may be the proposed use.

 

[SOAR]

The guys safety is his problem really, the question is does he have permision, the other thing is do the trees he is putting bolts into have TPO 's on them?

 

[Peter_t]

i sometimes do recreational tree climbing outside work to get away from the fast and often stressful pace of tree surgery. i don't have a problem with tree climbing as long as people don't damage the trees. it is or course very dangerous if you don't know what your doing. things like epicorminc growth, V shaped branch unions and fungus decayed wood to the untrained eye may look strong enough to support your weight but have caused fatal falls to the inexperienced.

i too have found bits of wood nailed high in trees and think it is wrong to do so without permission.

putting bolts through trees is not good for them as it will cause rot and eventually cavities making the tree likely to snap which obviously is a liability issue.
BUT a good deal of guys on bcuk think it fine to make holes in birch trees with augers which will also cause cavities in the tree even if you plug the hole!!
(covering wounds does not prevent infection in any way and in many cases encourages it)

it is not the falt of the bushcrafters but that of ray mears saying the tree will be 'unharmed' which it most sertainly won't be!!! ....sorry had to get that off my chest


pete

 

[Peter_t]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-TREE-CLIMB...s_Climbing_Mountaineering?hash=item4a9dac5a99

this makes me mad

not only does it say 'for tree surgeons' which is highly insulting but it claims this to be a safer way to climb! outrageous!!


rant over, im off to bed

Pete

 

[demographic]

There are people on this site that know a lot more about tree climbing than I do (eg Addo) but speaking as an occasional recreational tree climber I am horrified at what this guy is doing. If he knew anything at all about safe tree climbing he would now that you don't need to build a platform.

You need (eg):
• a proper tree climbing rope – NOT the same as for rock climbing
• a proper tree climbing harness - again NOT the same as for rock climbing
• for the occasional user I would also say that factory fitted end loops are essential to help avoid getting the knots wrong
• proper triple locking safety clips of the right strength

and most of all – proper training in how to use the kit.

Anyone interested could do worse than look at “The tree climber’s companion”. The Amazon reference is:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tree-Climbe...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264787345&sr=8-1

but you can usually get it cheaper from specialist arboricultural suppliers. In my view - good as the book is – it should only be used as a reminder of the training already received – and not as a ‘Teach yourself tree climbing’ book.

The (American) site – Tree Climbers International - has lots of good stuff eg it gives ‘rules’ on tree climbing at:

http://www.treeclimbing.com/index.p...s&catid=20:rules-for-tree-climbers&Itemid=145


One of these is:

“Protect the trees you climb -- use a cambium saver. Particularly on thin barked trees such as beech, eucalyptus, sycamore, or plane trees, the moving rope will cut into the tender inner bark layers, create damage and then kill the branch. The best way to protect trees during climbing is to use cambium savers.”

They probably didn’t think they needed to say “and by the way – don’t put coach bolts through the trunk” because they didn’t think anyone would be stupid enough to do that.

The main difference between the SRT ropes you are talking about is the fact that SRT ropes aren't as stretchy as rock climbing ropes, as I own both types of rope its fair to say that although the bounce in the rope means its harder work its not the end of the world to use acenders on climbing rope as long as its the correct diameter.
A climbers sit harness will do fine as long as you don't carry a pack above waist height (the weight up too high can cause you to end up upside down if you fall and thats not good as you could fall out of a sit harness) and it gets uncomfortable if you're sitting in it for too long.

Its a bad job if a decent rock climber couldn't be safe in a tree and although I do appreciate that being an arborist is a highly skilled job and certainly using a chainsaw up a tree requires proper training I think you might be over egging the basics of tree climbing thing a bit.
If anyone half decent cant get up a tree safely then perhaps they should hang up their krabs and not bother any more.
Most people I know just got on and climbed trees as a kid and none of them chased any ambulances yet.

I suppose your comments about protecting the tree is fair enough though but most kids with anything about them do it all the time when building tree houses, you must have done that as a kid?
I know I did in one of the 12 sycamores we had in the back garden.

I'm really struggling to be totally outraged by this and the only thing I'm even faintly surprised about is the fact that its someone in their 20s and not a young nipper.