this is why amateurs shouldn't be alowed chainsaws...

[British Red]

We can't charge people with drinking to excess in this country yet, and they are scary statistics, but some things we can govern, and should!
Do you think people should be able to drive a car without a licience then?

You already can drive a car without a licence - on your own land. I see no reason why a person shouldn't be able to operate a chainsaw on their own land.

We have enough laws in this country. In fact we have far, far too many.

I suspect very few third party injuries are caused by chainsaws.

As I said - we can ban alcohol - and if we actually care about people getting hurt, then it makes more sense to do that than to toughen up laws on chainsaws (or knives, or guns, or petrol stoves).

If its not about saving the greatest number of lives, what are doing it for?

 

[bigroomboy]

A person with a chainsaw hurts themselves, a person with a car kills innocent people as well, many of which do so with all the licences they need.

 

[Rockmonkey]

But there would be a lot more without licenses surely!
People with chainsaws have and do hurt others, that's why you have to have a minimum of 10 million pound public liability!

 

[Squidders]

Rockmonkey... you're a tree surgeon arguing that "the public" should have to get licenses... knowing most won't this sounds like a very good business model for you

 

[Rockmonkey]

On your own property i agree completely, but the video show's it hitting a car OFF his property.
Unless you have been trained, you cannot guarantee which way a tree is going to fall, unless it is already leaning that way!
It takes a lot of felling of various tree with different weight distributions to be able to know where it's gonna fall!
Small tree and in your own garden, i could not agree with you more!
I was against getting a licience before i did the courses, now i understand why, and maybe that is where the difference of opinion lies! A little knowledge goes a long way!

 

[Squidders]

That's not what they say!

You're thinking about One Sheet does plenty! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

[British Red]

So long as I'm allowed to run my saw on my own land - I really couldn't care less about the rest - I just don't want another bleeding heart to tell me what I need to do "for my own good".

I think there is a distinction between hiring out as an arborist (insurance etc. required) and a private individual working on private land.

I'm not against insurance either - I carry multiple public liability policies (where there is any chance of my activities might imingine on a third party). But I do not need "nanny" telling me what I can or cannot do in private.

Much of this legislation and certification is simply "being seen to do something". Chainsaw certification is like many professional certificates - wholly inadequate for the purposes of determining true competence and safety. That would require random inspections, re-qualification, medical tests and much more.

 

[Rockmonkey]

You're not wrong there!, i'm qualified up to my eyeballs, but competent, i don't want random a inspection, they may take away my toys!
I know people who use chainsaws more competently, and safer, than some with licenses!
One lad at college did everything right when cutting down trees, but he dropped his chainsaw, tripped up over roots, left his petrol in sunshine, things that everyone else on this planet seems to manage safely!, he was as my instructor said, an accident waiting to happen!
Happy chainsawing British Red, and be safe!

 

[Rockmonkey]

Damn you man!, can i not get anything past you! i should not be allowed out without a carer!
But seriously, is one sheet plenty, it would be handy to know next time i cut myself!!!!....

 

[bigroomboy]

On your own property i agree completely, but the video show's it hitting a car OFF his property.
Unless you have been trained, you cannot guarantee which way a tree is going to fall, unless it is already leaning that way!
It takes a lot of felling of various tree with different weight distributions to be able to know where it's gonna fall!
Small tree and in your own garden, i could not agree with you more!
I was against getting a licience before i did the courses, now i understand why, and maybe that is where the difference of opinion lies! A little knowledge goes a long way!

You are talking about felling trees etc, of couse where it affects other people and being done for a business some regulation is required, but placing a ban on a tool that can be used to that effect is Certainly not the way to go. You don't need a chainsaw to fell a tree so that would be totally ineffective and a chainsaw is just a tool with many uses. People need/want chainsaws for their own needs such as cross cutting rounds, carving, sculpting, limbing, trimming, carpentry, or even felling their own trees on their land. crying ban the chainsaw is just ill thought out and winds people up that use these things, its like saying ban the hammer because people sometimes hit their thumb.

 

[British Red]

Happy chainsawing British Red, and be safe!

Heck I have more PPE than the qualified arborist who I had on site (the tree growing between two power lines and then arcing over the roof had me leaving well alone) - I even lent him my vice and powered blade sharpener .


Chainsaw PPE by British Red, on Flickr


I even have safety chains on my small log bench


22) Supported log by British Red, on Flickr


I tel you something that I have found - the ear defenders on chainsaw helmets are rubbish. Even on the spendy ones. Take them off and fit Peltors or something better!

Its all dodgy stuff for sure - my pneumatic splitter can be entertaining when a big old round lets go or a gnarly cross grained lump flies up in the air too - but then see the injuries from axes in the full members thread.

Rendering trees into firewood will never be safe - but its part of my lifestyle and I enjoy it while understanding and minimising the risks. I do get on my soapbox about personal liberty - because scientifically governments love to pick on areas with questionable gains (shooting, knives, tools) whilst ignoring real massive killers (alcohol, bad diet, tobacco, ) - because its not really about saving lives - its about winning votes, pacifying busybodies and ignoring the things that kill the most people and raise most taxes.

 

[Rockmonkey]

Mate, i'm the same!, don't even get me started on the whole government thing, i'll have to make myself an even bigger soap box than i already have!
Looks like there is a body missing in that ppe shot!
I like the sound of peltors, thanks for giving me something else to google!
Pneumatic splitter always look good fun, bet you never look away when using that bad boy, i know i won't!

 

[British Red]

Go for active defenders if you can - they have a mic' and speaker and only cut out the sound when it goes above safe levels (80dB or there abouts).

This sort are fine

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTRONI...=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item5d386bcde9

We use them for shooting and its great - you can hear normal speech between shots but there is a split second of quiteness when they cut off the shot noise. Vastly better than any I have had on a saw helmet.

 

[Rockmonkey]

Thanks for that Red!

 

[santaman2000]

On your own property i agree completely, but the video show's it hitting a car OFF his property.
Unless you have been trained, you cannot guarantee which way a tree is going to fall, unless it is already leaning that way!.....QUOTE]

I believe someone said you're a ree surgeon. Maybe so, but it's obvious from that comment you aren't (and never have been) a logger. We begin learning chainsaws around age 12 and start work with the family around 15 or so. No lessons. No licenses. And we ALWAYS know where the tree's gonna fall.

 

[silentman]

We live in a society educated by mass media, and sadly quite a lot people, who are parents now, were kids when it was decided by “them” by them I mean government, media, child experts, interfering busy bodies, and television, that you “have to protect kids from any danger”, and by “any danger” I mean not only real dangerous stuff, like playing on the pylons and disused quarries, but kids stuff, broken bones, bloody noses, cuts and bruises, from normal stuff like climbing trees/falling out of trees, dandy cart races, and sledding on plastic tea trays and old spades.

Now, if you were told all your life that green was pink and black was blue, it would take a lot of effort on your part to throw off the trapping of your childhood. Even experts screw it up, now and then

They got it wrong, killing 99% of germs all the times, till your kids are school age just means little super clean Jonnie and Jenny will end up catching all the disease that their class mates bring into school in the first couple of weeks in reception class. Not allowing your kids to play in dirt and soil means they will get no protection from the bugs that may make them a bit sick as kid but may kill them or blind them later in life. By not letting you kids take risks or make decisions as kids where you are there to pick up the pieces, will mean that they will screw it up big time when they have no one is there to sort out their mess.
If my little girl wants to waste her cash on rubbish and sweets, I let her, but once it’s gone she knows there is no more till pocket money day. She bought a lot of rubbish in the past, but now she has learnt, and saves up for the stuff she really wants, you know the stuff she still wants after saving up for months. She doesn’t come whimpering to me when she has muddy hands, she wipes them on her jeans, just like kids are meant to, (note to mothers, washing clothes gets out all the mud, there is really no need to panic, even a ham-fisted git like me can do it) I’m not saying I’m any better at letting my little one have as much freedom as I had, because I’m not, I’m trying really hard to allow her to have a childhood though, and my daughter, unlike her friends, minds less about getting muddy and wet/cold then she does about doing boring kids stuff.
She gets to play with fire; she gets to play with a sharp SAK she gets to see her food before it looks like food. I’m sure when she is old enough to have kids, they will have more freedom, and be able to reclaim childhood. I think by telling kid the truth, and showing them that yes there are dangers, and bad things do happen, that may hurt them, they learn more than protecting them from it.
rant over I return you to your normal service

Very well said!

 

[Rockmonkey]

The point being made was about training!, and if you started at 12, by 15 i should hope you do know where the tree is gonna fall!
If you had read more of this thread, you would have noticed that i had mentioned about learning before you know where every tree is gonna fall!
Once you have been taught, you then know! Qualified or not, if no one has taught you, you don't know, full stop!
I watch the american logging show's, hat's off to you guys that don't have health and safety breathing down your neck, you guy's sure earn your money!
Over here you can't even start up your chainsaw without a site spacific assessment form having been filled out!

 

[British Red]

Here are some interesting statistics

between 2004/05 to 2010/11) chainsaws caused 5 deaths. Thats less than one per year

http://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/chainsaw-operator.htm

On average three people per year in the UK are killed by lightning strikes

http://www.torro.org.uk/site/lightning_info.php

A third of a million people a year contract toxoplasmosis from direct or indirect contact with cats

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...itains-hidden-toxoplasma-problem-8102860.html

Six hundred and forty two people die by falling down the stairs

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/nov/02/causes-of-death-mortality-rates


So, I propsose that we all own chainsaws but live in cat free bungalows with lightning rods

 

[Rockmonkey]

Hell! That's what I'm gonna do! Why risk it!
Let's see the government put risk assessments on cats, and people who own them have to have public liability just in case the neighbour contract toxoplasmosis and dies!
You got my brain thinking now Red!

 

[santaman2000]

The point being made was about training!, and if you started at 12, by 15 i should hope you do know where the tree is gonna fall!
If you had read more of this thread, you would have noticed that i had mentioned about learning before you know where every tree is gonna fall!
Once you have been taught, you then know! Qualified or not, if no one has taught you, you don't know, full stop!
I watch the american logging show's, hat's off to you guys that don't have health and safety breathing down your neck, you guy's sure earn your money!
Over here you can't even start up your chainsaw without a site spacific assessment form having been filled out!

Fair enough. The point you make about needing training isn't neccessarily what I (and others) are protesting. Rather the truth is that the best training is often simple experience. No one ever starts off as an expert. We all start (whatever endeavor) as beginners (amatuers)

Keeping that limited to the subject of chain saws, you have your system of formal training with an end certificate, while ours is based more on learning on the job (or from family) In many ways it seems the reverse of what one would expect! I remember from my time in the UK that most tradesmen of any real age regarded the older apprenticeship system as better than more modern formal training whereas (at that time) it was the Americans who felt better about formal training and less so about apprenticeships. It would seem we (as a culture) may have swapped opinions.