Smmmokin !

[Seagull]

First ever try, without the Bow.

Elder drill, about as thick as middle finger and about 2 feet in length.
Elder hearth, about thumb thick.

I got smoke, suprising quickly, just 3 passes, top to bottom,and thats as far as I went.

Question, for the cognescenti.

Didnt see a great amount of dust,( I was just messing, really) but what there was, is a much lighter shade of brown than usually get with the Bow technique(brush handle and very dry pine); is this typical of Elder?

I gotta say that it feels odd, working with material so fragile.


Right, thats me, off to the woods, to get some more Elder.


Ceeg

 

[Mooney]

could you post some pictures of the elder hearth please, or maybe describe it?

I have an elder drill and a large supply of elder growing near by but i dont know how to make a hearth with it.

 

[jdlenton]

Seeg that sounds about right just sounds like you didn't do it for long enough i had a go with rich59's setup at the full members meet and got a coal first time out second time out got a great big blister that i tore now I've got to let it heel before I try again. at least that will give my set that i cut yesterday time to dry

have you read both of these:
rich59's virtual hand dril tutorial and Patric M's hand drill for beginers Tutorial
some interesting stuff in both

Mooney the above should give you what you need

James

 

[browndrake]

the links are not working for me..

 

[jdlenton]

they do for me but here are the url's

Patric M's hand drill for beginers Tutorial
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=8292


rich59's virtual hand dril tutorial
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=10330

James

 

[browndrake]

thanks...dont know what the issue was..now both links work..

 

[Seagull]

Cheers for that, JD.
I will give it go when the newly gathered stuff, is dried and up to temp.

I hadn,t paid much attention to these posts before, as I reckoned that this technique wasnt for me anyway.

Addictive, this friction-fire lark, aint it?


Ceeg

 

[Mooney]

Seeg that sounds about right just sounds like you didn't do it for long enough i had a go with rich59's setup at the full members meet and got a coal first time out second time out got a great big blister that i tore now I've got to let it heel before I try again. at least that will give my set that i cut yesterday time to dry

have you read both of these:
rich59's virtual hand dril tutorial and Patric M's hand drill for beginers Tutorial
some interesting stuff in both

Mooney the above should give you what you need

James

Thanks for the links but im still not sure how to make the actual hearth... ive tried the 2 stick method but the drill just compressed the wood and cut right through, i think it may not be dry enough, i cut it 5 days ago.

Should i leave it for longer?

 

[jdlenton]

Mooney this i the piece about the hearthboard from rich59 tutorial can you tell me wht you dont undersand ? Your wood wants to be as dry as you can get it to start with ?

.

Use a tool to make a shallow depression in the hearthboard. Then spin the drill in it to wear it down to a smooth circular depression

3) Make a notch from the side of the hearthboard into the side of the depression. The notch should be a blunted V shape. It should extend into the round depression but stop short of the central point. There should be a smooth vertical fall from the depression to the coal collector below.

4) The flat under surface of the hearth board (especially the walls of the V shaped notch) should fit snugly to the surface below. There should be no gap or cavity for the dust to spread into and therefore cool down under the hearth board.

Addictive, this friction-fire lark, aint it?

your not kidding i thought cracking bow drill was exciting but hand drill is another thing altogether I so want to give it a go all the time at the mo but got to wait fro this blomin blister to heal

James

 

[Mooney]

i understand completely and have made a pine hearthboard before, but elder doesnt grow like that as u probably know, i cant see how u can get a hearthboard out of a stick, expecially one with a thin wall with pith in the middle that only grows to about 2cm diameter.

I have tried the 2stick method with elder but as you say i think they need to dry alot more.

 

[Seagull]

The tale with this hand drill, has taken a bit of a dip.

I just tried with some of new elder hearthboard , (dried out for about 18 hrs)I even planed it smooth!
Carved out the start of a hole and started with the same drill as yesterday.

All I got, was the start of a blister, my drill stick disintegrated , not a whiff of any smoke, nor noise, or charring of the hearth.

What I did get, though, was a beautiful smooth and slick finish on the hearth divot, and I do mean smoooth. Couldnt have done better with 1500 grit paper.

Having ventured into this hand drill thing, I understand that theres a lot of semi-mystic hoodoos about the whole affair ; but, are there any "blisters-in-law" out there, who,ve heard of this "slicking"

Ceeg

 

[Seagull]

Hi Mooney, just saw your post. Believe it or not, the hearth you dont give any hope for, was exactly what I got encouraging results from, yesterday.....but see my post of a few mins ago

Ceeg

 

[jdlenton]

Mooney
now i understand i got a piece of elder yesterday from a dead branch that's 31/2" in diameter and the pith in the middle is 3/16 diameter i should be able to get a good hearth out of that.

Ceeg
sounds like you didn't get the drill and hole warm enough to start combusting and the two polished each other, seen it before in bow drill all i did then was rough up the surfaces and try again but as I've not done that much hand drill its something I've not had to experiment with yet.

James

 

[Mooney]

very nice thanks for your help, ill go have a scout for some thicker stuff this weekend

 

[Seagull]

Getting there!

Whoa hoe! (at 110 db)
I have just had another go at this.
Still a bit, "hyper".

Using the Elder drill and hearth,i got my first ember!


In,the garage of course ( its pimply-sissing down outside), and so I was a bit restricted with space for performing a series of cartwheels and somersaults.

Still laughing my head off and trying to get my breath back...corblimey I dont suppose the pipe helps much.

I wouldnt,ve believed it, a workable ember in 7 passes, and to h*ll with the blister.


I got a good feeling that project hand-drill, will soon be at lift-off. Hurray! Hurray!
Pity I dont have an emoticon for doing handstands, or something


Ceeg

 

[Toddy]

Brilliant! Very well done
Best I can find is the wee dancing man
Tony, we need a "I've made fire" smilie on the list
Cheers,
Toddy

 

[rich59]

:wow1::yo: :notworthy

 

[rich59]

Fragile elder drill - This is a common finding if you use one year old wood. 2 year old wood is much more solid. Some of it is too big but a hard grown bush will yeald some thin enough drills on 2y old wood. Elder does have a habit of producing dead branches of 1 year old wood. Sometimes these are suitable for drilling straight from the tree. These fragile one year old drills don't last long, easily crack etc, but with care you can nurture an ember.

Smooth, polished drill tip and socket - This easily happens if drilling with a hard wood drill onto a hard wood hearth. Roughening it with sand paper can help, but the easiest thing is to try a thinner drill diameter - the increased force per unit area can overcome or prevent the polishing happening.

Blisters - in the heat of the moment when you nearly have a coal it is easy to develop blisters by trying just that bit harder. If you can just discipline yourself to stop before it is too late you can usually get back to drilling the next day. Once you have a broken blister though you can be out of action for a few days.

 

[torjusg]

That must be a great feeling! Good for you! Working on the matter myself, but not as much as I'd like (damn blisters).

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Seagull]

Hi, Rich.

Well, your last one struck a chord, on all topics!
Yup, for the drill, I.m just using long-dead Elder shoots, about little finger thickness. My, my , they sure do splinter well

What had me ,"took aback" a bit, (despite the apparant fragility of these spindles), is the way they so easily cut through the hearthboard like a circular pastry thingy.( forgot the name...minds a blank) When you get it right.
Amazin,

I wasnt ready for that one and had to revise the hearth thickness to twice what I had been using....blackened polo mint shapes everywhere!

Blisters, yeah, this one I do know... but, next sea-trial tomorrow .



Ceeg