Shotgun?

[Spunyarn]

Hi guys,
I'm after getting myself a shotgun license and then a gun. It''ll be my first gun, although I'm ex military, and have done a fair bit of shotgun shooting before. I'm not really into the shooting scene per se, but have a few friends with shotgun & firearms licenses, and will use mine for shooting game with them and also clays if I join a gun club.

There are a few choices to make when buying a gun so I wondered what people recommend and why?

Over and Under vs Side by Side? (I prefer the look of side by side, but don't think I've ever seen anyone shoot one and assume they're very unpopular, but had a go with one once and I was pretty inaccurate).

What gauge? (12 Gauge seems the norm, so will probably go with that)

How much to spend? (Want to keep costs to a bare minimum, so I what is the cheapest I could get an entry level second hand gun?)

Cheers

 

[Imagedude]

A 12 bore O/U is a good starting point. I use a Browning 425 with 30" barrels and chokes fixed at 1/4 + 3/4 for everything including English skeet, DTL, English sporting and game shooting. Most people prefer interchangeable chokes but I prefer the simplicity of fixed.

 

[lannyman8]

you could go to a local clay club explain what your doing and why, ask them if you can have a go with a selection of guns, they will have a bit of a range for you to try, 12g and 20g even 28g but that would be to small for you, i know a big bloke who who uses a 20g because he likes less recoil.... then there is o/u s/s and semi auto etc etc...

i would say an o/u gun in 12g or 20g, 28 inch barrel because its easyer to mount and can be swung faster, but thats just my choice, franchi are a good cheaper make that are comfortable for me, prices from brand new vary from £300-400 + or if you really want to save money get a Bakel o/u for about £100, they are a Russian gun big heavy things but will last a life time and are bomb proof.

i personally use a 12g Berreta silver pigeon 4, lovelry gun, just dont ask how much it cost...

best of luck with it all, and most of all have fun...

 

[British Red]

Side by sides cover more of the target in the air - and the barrels are offset latterly. They are harder to shoot well - but only marginally so. They are less popular because all competitive clay shooters tend to use O/U. Unpopular is good - you can get a REALLY good price on them - plus they have a nice traditional feel

You can easily find a nice clean AYA like mine for £250


AYA No.3 12 bore SBS by British Red, on Flickr

For informal clays and game, you can also get a cheap semi auto. I personally don;t like them for game because I like to carry my gun "broken" - its a visual safety check, however many wildfowlers use them to great effect. They are as good as an Over & Under in terms of sight picture (only one barrel in view) but generally need stiffer loads (28g +) to cycle reliably, however the semi action soaks up some recoil (which is why wildfowlers use them for those monster 50g goose loads). If they float your boat, get a visual safety breech flag.

Calibre, I find thoughts are changing, I have seen many a shooter transition to 20 bore these days. Lighter, less recoil but more than enough gun for UK birds and beasts. Weirdly there is no saving to be had in terms of gun cost - actually 20b command a premium second hand.

Lastly don't write off the humble .410. We use 2 of them. Mine is a little folding single barrel.


Belgian Folding .410 by British Red, on Flickr

My wifes is a supressed mossberg pump


Mossberg 500 Stealth .410 by British Red, on Flickr

Quieter than an airgun, does not spook livestock or dog walkers, doesn't destroy meat. We had it at the gun club recently and shot some clays with it for giggles. It was surprisingly swingable

To my mind choices are:

Side by side 12 bore - £250 or less out the door

Over and Under - 12 bore (or my choice of 20 bore) - Around £1000 - £1250 for a good new one - a basic new one for half that, second hand down to £300 - but its a long look

Basic .410 folder - £50 - and a lot of fun on branchers and bunnies, no recoil at all, cartridges weigh nothing - 50 in your pocket doesn't weigh you down. A .410 is often considered a yout gun but thats nonsense - it is a closer range gun, but has advantages of less noise, weight, recoil and meat damage.

 

[Spunyarn]

Cheers for all your replies gents, Great post British Red.

I'm looking more towards getting an side by side now on the basis of what British Red said, because I want that traditional feel. I think I'll keep an open mind though, and see what's available locally when I come to buy.

 

[British Red]

Guntrader.co.uk is a good place to keep an eye on prices spunyarn, try to find private sellers if you can - much better prices. In this area there are six or so gun shops. Four are "posh", two cater for farmers, rough shooters etc. They are all good - some if you want great service, parts ordering etc. Some if you just want a really cheap gun out the door with a few knocks and scratches.

Don't forget you will need a cabinet as well. If on a budget, keeping an eye on local papers etc. should show one in the £50 to £75 range for a three gun.

I would certainly suggest going to a local clay club - everyone upgrades over time and most clubs have a noticeboard with "for sale" items - great place for a cheap cabinet or gun

Red

 

[Camel]

Very good advice here.

I would just note that the shotgun must fit you properly if you are to learn to shoot with it. It will just frustrate you otherwise.

Beware when buying a second hand gun unseen for this reason.

It can be worth popping along to a local clay ground and getting an idea of which guns suit you better than others.

Much as I love my SS, I have an auto for Wildfowling and shoot better with that than the SS. The reason is that as nice a gun as the SS is the auto fits me better...

Heartbreaking eh?

 

[resnikov]

Applied for my SGC last month, been told there is only a 4 month waiting list so hopefully in February. This thread is making very interesting reading, think I will have to come back and review it in Feb.

 

[Stringmaker]

Applied for my SGC last month, been told there is only a 4 month waiting list so hopefully in February. This thread is making very interesting reading, think I will have to come back and review it in Feb.

4 months is very poor.

The efficiency with which the poliss process SGC requests and renewals varies hugely, but that seems unacceptable to me.

 

[resnikov]

It did say 3 months on the website but I rang them to ask a few questions and they told me due to a back log its 4 at the moment. I can wait, more time to fantasy shop for a new shotgun

 

[Stringmaker]

Ah right; it was a couple of years ago I got mine and I forgot about the 3 month bit.

Maybe I was lucky.

For an entry level O/U I got a Bettinsoli and am very pleased with it.

 

[lannyman8]

It did say 3 months on the website but I rang them to ask a few questions and they told me due to a back log its 4 at the moment. I can wait, more time to fantasy shop for a new shotgun

when i applied upon moving i had to wait 6 months for my license to get back...

 

[resnikov]

when i applied upon moving i had to wait 6 months for my license to get back...

Oh well looks like I could be in for a longggggggggg wait.

 

[British Red]

That isn't normal - the FLOs are understaffed now and coupled with a new computer system, everything is backed up. Get the forms in soonest and be patient (and nice to them). They did my wifes renewal in a few weeks - mine took ages.....so, like I said, they respond to nice people

 

[Luu89]

My renewal has taken ages as well, so long in fact that it has expired and the guns are now stored with a friend... But let's not get started on that.

Just to add my 2p worth, owning an O/U, a Semi and a SxS, I have to say for field shooting, the SxS wins hands down, and it's the most fun on the clay ground. To be perfectly honest I am not good enough of a shot to have the barrel configuration effect my accuracy.

Plus, if you're looking at the barrels, you're doing it wrong anyways

Luu.

 

[jacko1066]

Hi guys,
Excuse my ignorance,
Can you apply for a shot gun licence and then buy a gun cabinet later?
Say I was gonna just get a licence to borrow guns or hire them for clay pigeon shooting, would that work?
Sorry to hijack the thread slightly.
Cheers
Steve


Leave only footprints take only memories

 

[British Red]

You don't need a certificate to hire a gun at a clay range or to use someone elses under their supervision.

If you wish to borrow one and have it unsupervised, you do need a certificate and to get a certificate you need a secure storage arrangement for the shotgun (doesn't have to be a cabinet).

You can apply for a certificate without a cabinet, and buy one when the certificate is granted, but they won't hand it over until you have secure storage as the certificate gives permission to acquirre a shotgun

Red

 

[jacko1066]

You don't need a certificate to hire a gun at a clay range or to use someone elses under their supervision.

If you wish to borrow one and have it unsupervised, you do need a certificate and to get a certificate you need a secure storage arrangement for the shotgun (doesn't have to be a cabinet).

You can apply for a certificate without a cabinet, and buy one when the certificate is granted, but they won't hand it over until you have secure storage as the certificate gives permission to acquirre a shotgun

Red

Brilliant, thanks red!!
So the short answer buy a cabinet at the same time you apply!!
Many thanks
Steve


Leave only footprints take only memories

 

[Doc]

The common 'first gun' is a an O/U with multichokes, by Beretta, Miroku or Browning if you can afford it, or for less money Franchi/Lanber/E. Rizzini etc. Some of these have 3" chambers which is handy (but not essential) if you might go wildfowling.

But if the OP is going to be mainly shooting game, the SxS is noticeably lighter, and as Red has observed can often be bought 2nd hand for not much. I've got a SKB (respected Japanese maker) single trigger SxS that cost me just £50. It's a non-ejector, but I personally prefer that.

On my game shoot about 75% use a O/U and 25% SxS. Pumps and autos are good for the foreshore or pigeon hide but a lot of game shoots don't allow them on safety grounds.

One bit of advice: think what is the absolute, definite, maximum number of guns you're likely to own at one time. Then get a cabinet that can hold twice as many... Seriously though, people often get an O/U, then a SxS, then a .410 for pests, then get into rabitting and buy a .22 rifle, then get another .22 with a night vision scope, then get the stalking bug and need a deer rifle... Removing a cabinet and installing a bigger one is potentially difficult and expensive. You'd be surprised how much these things weigh.

 

[resnikov]

You can apply for a certificate without a cabinet, and buy one when the certificate is granted, but they won't hand it over until you have secure storage as the certificate gives permission to acquirre a shotgun

Red

That is exactly what I am doing.

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